i think wepners foot was on ali's at the time,it really wasn't a knockdown.wepner himself was stopped later in the fight by ali bigjake
Ali was never the same after the '2' closed bouts with Roy Williams. He busted one of Ali's left ribs,,,,,,,,,as per Al Braverman,,,,, The same rib Chuck Wepner hit, to knock Ali down.
Roy screwed Roy. It was Roy's responsibility to be at the arena on time for his fight, not Ali's. He seems like a big enough boy to tell Ali "F U, I need the money and I'm going now."
Williams was trying to talk up a fight between himself and Ali for a few years. It would have given him a good payday. Not a win though,as Muhammad would beaten him,one-sidedly.
Wasn't Williams Ali's sparring partner for the Foreman fight? The rope a dope strategy Ali used in the Foreman fight coudl have been born here. Ali was not a good gym fighter. It would not surprise me if Williams, who was more aggressive looked about even with Ali.
Look at the fight 'Rope-a-Dope' (the phrase were coined by (Sir) David Frost, in the post fight interview "so you roped yourself a dope!"), was formed when Ali realised in the second round, he could not dance away from Foreman, so he laid on the ropes while trying to figure out, what to do next... This clearly was not a tactic Ali thought of going in, as Dundee is constantly screaming at him, to get off the ropes.
You know, Archie Moore had supposedly taught a young Ali that tactic on his farm. Called it the "turtle shell", Ali couldn't do his chores, Moore sent him home. Also, about "Ali bias". People get fired up when their favorite fighter sounds like less than a saint. Il Duce was posting factual info gathered by himself and a bunch of jerks came by and harassed him as an Ali hater. You know Ali had a mistress in Bala Cynwyd, Pennsylvania? He bought her a house there because she had one of his kids. Because I stated this, am I an Ali hater? No. We just have to stop acting like we know people like Ali, when really all we did was watch him and read about him. That familiar feeling is false. You don't know Ali, so we have to work with these facts. Which, when certain facts go against the grain of expectations people get cranky (and vocal). Il Duce was a rare poster, and he got driven away by jerks.
Holmes is building up Roy Williams....I seen Roy Williams fight and he was ordinary in fact he was beaten by by Richard Dunn who was KO'd in 11 of his 12 losses and for example Joe Bugner and Danny McAlinden Ko'd Dunn in 1, others like Bunny Johnson,Jose Urtain,Rocky Campell and Billy Aird Jimmy Young and Ali also stopped and dropped the Glass Jawed Dunn but Williams was outpointed...so much for fear of Williams and the legend
The one thing I have learnt, are more than few famous boxers, have very questionable pasts and indeed, presents; and if you want to be consistent, it is probably best just to try and concentrate on their boxing career...
I had more than my fair share of debates with Il Duce, who was a fine poster indeed apart from his obvious agenda. Ive no qualm at all with what people claim provided it can be backed up with evidence and facts but Il Duce was giving his opinion,which we all do, and sometimes it was so outrageously anti-Ali that he got called on it. That is not chasing anyone as it goes on all the time here. In fact ive sent him PMs asking him to come back and also corresponded with guys who were friendly with him,like big jake, in an effort to get him back. His info on sonny liston was brilliant and i would have loved to have learned more from Il D.