Now Stevie, let's be clear about just what kind of toe we're taking about here. This is Haye's new entrance theme, and the tune Davida probably trains to (like Liston worked out to "Night Train"): [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3I64m0x6wI[/ame]
Frazier was great, id only pick Ali, Foreman, Tyson and MAYBE Louis to beat him. But anything can happen in boxing
Yes,and I was being sarcastic - did I not make it obvious enough? Because he was a glass jawed,cherry picking opportunist as a fighter,and a thoroughly unpleasant,self-pitying cretin of a person.No single fighter in the sports history has ever profited or gained as much from an assosciation with another fighter as Frazier has.This association has lead many to rating Frazier was higher than what he should be.On an all-time basis and head-to-head - he's as overrated a fighter as I could possibly think of. His apologists are even worse than Duran's.Difference is,DOO-RAN was a legitimately great fighter(as much as have poked fun of him and his fanbase in the past,I'd never argue otherwise.) If we were to listen to his apologists,we'd be led to believe that Frazier's prime was limited to just two or three fights,and that the version that beat Bob Foster - you know,the LHW that failed in every single attempt against a credible heavyweight - was this H2H beast that would be favoured over the vast majority heavyweights,past or present.They'll also tell us that Frazier was shot the first time he ever lost and that he somehow underestimated his opponent - even though the opponent in question was a man that Frazier had tried to avoid - rather than acknowledge that Foreman was the one and only puncher Frazier ever stepped in the ring with and,as it turned out,Frazier simply couldn't take a punch very well against a noted puncher.
:shock: I bet you think Ali is horribly overrated too ? You hate Frazier almost as much as Pachilles hates Dempsey.
I dont hate Dempsey, i just dont consider him worthy of a mention as the P4P no.1 ATG and think he ducked his number 1 contender for 7 years and ducked a middleweight that was beating all his title condenders, got knocked out in 10 seconds by a journeyman and was outpointed by a morbidly obese ex flyweight. Apaarently that is hate.
Rematching Foreman in 1976 after Manila, with no world title on the line (staying upright through over four and a half rounds), and risking his title in a rematch with Bonavena (keeping his feet throughout the championship distance) is glass jawed "cherry picking?" What a *****! No wonder Holmes hates him so much. Yeah, because winning a mere nine consecutive heavyweight title fights other than the FOTC drops him down to the same level as that shitty Ezzard Charles. Yeah, because stepping into the void left by Ali's exile and settling the question of the HW Title succession conclusively counts for nuthin'!
To an extent,yes.It's impossible to be in the position that he is and not be overrated.However,you take away the fame,the publicity,the notoriety - you still have one of the greatest fighters in the sports history The Foreman fight was nothing more than a cash-out for Frazier.Next to Ali,a Foreman fight presented the most money that Frazier could earn within a single fight. Where did I claim,or even imply that Frazier was a "*****"? Frazier won four consecutive title fights after winning it,not nine.I don't believe Buster Mathis was even ranked at the time Frazier beat him for that "title". What does Charles have to do with this discussion?
Frazier took a very strong stance against Ali and I understand that as a public figure who generates a lot of support, Frazier's position on Ali is bound to generate this sort of strong reaction. That's fair enough. Just as long as you are happy coming across as a complete idiot to most of the posters on the forum.