I don't think its that arguable anymore. He's certainly surpassed Harada and Elorde in my eyes the last few years. I don't see that great an argument for either of them but I'm open to suggestions. As for that last line: Ignorance is bliss :rofl
Is Morales? :hey Is Soto-Karass, a welterweight, ****? And lets not forget its widely known Valero spanked De La Hoya and probably ruined him before Pac even got hold of him :bbb
Elorde is nowhere near that level anyway. He has just about edged Harada. The weight jumping is pretty insane. Then again, so is 3 linear titles in the days of 8 weight classes and two wins against a true ATG that never lost to anybody else, indeed, the importance of those wins over Jofre cannot be overlooked. But whilst I agree with you, others wouldn't, I would say it is still arguably myself :good As per the last bit, nice flashes yes, but not much against much decent opposition as I've said many times before. He gets too much praise for what he didn't do, and too much of a free pass for what he did do (and I mean in the ring, not out of it) because he 'obviously would've went on to do much better'. I judge him on what he actually did, never the no.1 in either division he fought in, never fought any great shakes, never has the chance to prove me wrong. In short, I resent the amount of air time he gets from reputable, intelligent and knowledgable posters. I just. Don't. Get. It. :good
Are you just going on sparring now, or just winding me up, don't play games with me Eskimo, tell me straight. Put it this way, I ain't happy rating him on what could've been, I'll rate him on what he actually did, which is, in the grand scheme of things, not much. Exciting? Definitely. Dangerous? Definitely. But he deserves no more respect as a fighter than that, as he didn't amount to much. And such a sloppy finisher ;-)
Ah yes, but we're talking hypotheticals and ability. It's obvious he didn't amount to much in the grand scheme of things. A demented half blind Orangutan could click on boxrec and deduce that.
And as you know, I believe the truee mark of ability is when it's been proven against an opponent I deem to be 'top-notch' ;-) There are a few contender-types on his resume, but nothing too noteworthy. David Reid on the other hand :tong
Never seen that, thanks. Maybe beating on Ol' Oscar isn't that impressive really. The 'what if' game is bloody fun though mate. You're just a sour sap because you hate Valero with the same passion I have for ginger birds. My point was never that Valero achieved anything special, only that he was a great misunderstood talent. And this footage that I'd never seen goes some way to demonstrating some of the points I made.
I thought that ginger wench you had on the go was pretty tasty? :think And yeah, I know he wasn't a bloody caveman, but my criticisms of him are fair as well, even if everyone seems to think I'm mental. He wasn't ****, but he wasn' anything special either, despite him showing brief flashes of instinctive punch selection in sparring and against average fighters.