Ali beating Foreman was a more incredible performance than Frazier beating Ali

True. Frazier was at the peak of his powers beating an Ali a little past his. Foreman was at the peak of his powers against an older again Ali who was thought to have next to no chance. Foreman was thought by a great many to be invincible. Ali was a massive underdog.

 

To most it did, but there were still many critics of Foreman:

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Yes, all things considered, I'd have to agree. It's certainly the better 'win'.

 

Super info. Jeez.

 

Great post, MDWC. :good

Those writers touch on the very thing that I think makes Frazier's a better win.

Ali survived a monster, took a 2-round destroyer into the deeper waters and drowned him.

Frazier beat a bona fide experienced 15-round championship fighter in a 15-round epic.

Of course, Ali's win was more "incredible" in a strict sense (bigger upset). But Frazier's stands as the more impressive performance.
But that's just my perspective.

 

It was. I reckon thahe mentioned it in the opening paragraph of his CV when he applied for the job as editor of Boxing News. :yep

This is true. Thanks mate. :good

 

What impressed me even more was that you actually typed it out

 

Thanks mate...and that's where I was struggling with my vote (I plumped for Ali-Foreman in the end) because maybe Joe's is a perfect, well-paced, machine-like, gradually going up in gears, 'champions' performance, coming into his own in the championship rounds...while Ali's is, on the face of it, so wrong in many ways, yet the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

 

I impressed myself doing that too actually :yep. I've enjoyed a nice lazy day indoors today with my son watching endless Doctor Who episodes (currently Full Circle) while the girls of the house do what they do best (shopping for shoes). Recovering afterr a skinful last night (which ended in the missus flat out and me bragging to Bokaj about my Mike McCallum and Bryan Ferry impressions)

 

LMAO!!!! I've not seen more than 2 or 3 episodes of the entire modern day Dr Who but the good thing is i will have countless hours of fantastic entertainment when i do decide to go the hammer on it. My friend (a fanatic) tells me they are an awesome addition. As a kid i used to watch it religiously. One of the great Pommy series.

 

Not sure mate, probably something Mailer would claim.

 

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Some good read. Thanks!

Frazier beating Ali is probably the better win IMO, or at least as good. But the way in which Ali beat Foreman makes it the better perfomance IMO. That, and that I'm a bit sick and tired of all the Frazier nuthugging that goes around here.:yep

The whole "Frazier was more or less shot when Foreman beat him, but Ali was more or less prime when Frazier beat him" nonsense. The reviosonism that goes on to make "the bluecollar underdog, man's man" Frazier seem more formidable than he is, is reaching Duran-esque proportions. YES, PACHILLES, YOU HEARD RIGHT. Frazier was seen as still being in his prime by most observers when he met Foreman, just as Ali was seen as not quite the same fighter as before by most before FOTC.

 

If I weren't such a lazy bum I'd post the clip when D'Amato and Dundee watches Ali spar in his comeback, and D'Amato pointing out how he literally have lost a step, which Angelo agrees with. D'Amato later on tells Ali how his speed an reflexes will have suffered by the lay-off and how that will give Frazier the win. If someone else had Conteh's diligence here, they could probably find at least a dozen quotes from writers and experts saying more or less the same thing.

 

Yes, and I think 95% of us here accept that as true.