Billy Conn vs Ezzard Charles at Middleweight.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by GPater11093, Jul 17, 2011.


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  1. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    Obviosuly both these guys made their names at Light-Heavyweight primarily, but were also top Heavyweights. Generally Charles is considered the greater of the two.

    But how would you compare them at Middleweight in terms of their resume, and of course, how do you think a battle over 15 rounds between the two at 160lbs would go?
     
    GPater11093, Jul 17, 2011
    GPater11093, Jul 17, 2011
    #1
  2. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    when talking of ezzard as a middleweight we are talking about a very young kid in his first career that lasted 3 years ending 28-3-1 when he was drafted as a 21 year old kid. This career started when he was still in high school.


    ezzard featured in the middleweight ring ratings for one year only in 1941 when zale was champion. By the next year two wins over joey maxim put him in the lightheavyweight rankings even though he was only 168lb.

    When Conn was about this size he was a more seasoned pro of over 50 pro fights, he had already beat fighters like fred apostoli, yarosz, krieger, babe risko and zivic.

    conn, more mature, posibly would have a big edge in experience.
     
    choklab, Jul 17, 2011
    choklab, Jul 17, 2011
    #2
  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I tend to agree with choklab that Conn was a little more seasoned at 160.
     
    janitor, Jul 17, 2011
    janitor, Jul 17, 2011
    #3
  4. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    I agree Conn is more seasoned, I'll be honest I think it is indisputable.

    However, I think Charles was the better Middleweight fighter, so I'm more interested in peoples thoughts on the match up.
     
    GPater11093, Jul 17, 2011
    GPater11093, Jul 17, 2011
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  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    If Charles is better h2h as a middleweight than Conn, but Conn is more seasoned, I take it you consider the mature Charles is a class above the Conn that faced Louis?
     
    McGrain, Jul 17, 2011
    McGrain, Jul 17, 2011
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  6. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Another pertinent question is what would the Conn of the first Louis fight have done to the Louis that Charles fought?

    Just thought I would throw that one in there.
     
    janitor, Jul 17, 2011
    janitor, Jul 17, 2011
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  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Given the specific qualities that Louis lost and Conn's clear but close superiority at the end if I, a near-shut out is not impossible.
     
    McGrain, Jul 17, 2011
    McGrain, Jul 17, 2011
    #7
  8. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Charles was just flat out better imo and stylistically I don't see what Conn would do against the Cobra, he doesn't have the firepower of Bivins/Marshall to expose any unrefined defenses weaknesses and Charles has a big speed advantage. Charles seems all wrong for him.

    Charles was already good enough at MW to trice beat Burley, Yarosz and take a draw against Overlin. Conn too has a good MW record and had more fights around the weight but he clearly didn't really come into his own until he left the division, much like Charles
     
    PowerPuncher, Jul 17, 2011
    PowerPuncher, Jul 17, 2011
    #8
  9. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    Maybe not a class above, but he was better.

    I also think Charles was a pretty much prodigal talent from turning pro.

    He'd probably win it as clear as Charles, but wouldnt give Joe the same respect.

    Get this, I think Charles is better but a Middleweight Conn beats him because of his style.

    Charles struggled with good movers, but not runners, guys who would use angles to set up their attacks of fast combinations and flurries. Sound like someone?
     
    GPater11093, Jul 17, 2011
    GPater11093, Jul 17, 2011
    #9
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I agree, he was also a beast.

    There's nothing you can really say in specific support of any pick without footage. I think Charles was young and Conn was very very difficult to fight, but that is true of the relationship between Charles and Burley too.

    When two fighters are great, I won't pick the green one. And that's why i'd be picking Conn on points.

    I also think Conn has a very good chance based upon footage. That is, the Conn that lost to Louis could beat Charles, the HW champion of the world.
     
    McGrain, Jul 17, 2011
    McGrain, Jul 17, 2011
    #10
  11. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    Agree on all but the last point.

    I'd favour Charles in a close fight.

    Anyway Frank Sinatra is better than both.
     
    GPater11093, Jul 17, 2011
    GPater11093, Jul 17, 2011
    #11
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Can you think of any fighter ever above, say, 154lbs, that is better at smothering and de-bombing compact punches in combination than Conn?
     
    McGrain, Jul 17, 2011
    McGrain, Jul 17, 2011
    #12
  13. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    For whatever it is worth, Louis went to his grave insisting that Conn was the best he ever fought.
     
    janitor, Jul 17, 2011
    janitor, Jul 17, 2011
    #13
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    The highlights of the film are more than enough for one to say why.

    Yes, that's right, I used "one".
     
    McGrain, Jul 17, 2011
    McGrain, Jul 17, 2011
    #14
  15. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Conn Unanimous Decision, Louis wins 2-3 rounds, Conns faced badly puffed by louis' jab.
     
    SuzieQ49, Jul 17, 2011
    SuzieQ49, Jul 17, 2011
    #15
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