The main reason Pacquiao wouldn't beat Mayweather, is that ....

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by gooners!!, Jul 21, 2011.


  1. AnthonyW

    AnthonyW ESB Official Gif Poster Full Member

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    I've always had Mayweather as the favourite, and still have him as the slight favourite...for now.

    I just think Pacquiao has the style disadvantage, which can be overcome...but against Mayweather...:think
     
  2. KnuckleUp99

    KnuckleUp99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It's not the fault of the numbers or actual data that the PUNCHSTATS reveal. It's the job of those analyzing that data to formulate their own conclusion and yes.... you have to watch the fight to catch all the nuances of the fight. The ebb and flow of any fight is the most important aspect of analyzing a fight...the punchstats only reinforce the outcome.

    Joe C vs. Hopkins was a similar comparision for this potential fight. Floyd is more conservative...more of the counter puncher who lays traps and capitolizes on the mistakes of his opponent. I thought Nard won...but Joe took a lot of the early rounds with his activity and pressure. Nard eneded up walking him down later in the fight but he let go too many of the early rounds and the judges got him for it.

    PAC's performances against his opposition all have different styles...the common denominator is of course PAC. Cotto, Josh and Marg all have vastly differnt styles. Ricky, DLH and JMM all have contrasting styles. But they are all considered offensive fighters for the most part.. which is the only common trait they have. So when you fight PAC the outcome is eerily similar.

    PAC is a fighter who's style always puts him at risk. His offense means he's open to counters which makes him even more exciting to watch. So his getting banged up against bigger men whom he decides to test himself against fighting THEIR fight.....results in battle scars....but the telling sign is looking at what "the other guy looks like" by the end of the fight.

    Floyd can adapt, which is why he has a great chance in this fight. But the problem lies with who he has in his opponent. PAC not going to give Floyd a lot of time to adjust and think in the ring. if Floyd is to get that time he'll have to FIGHT for that respect early and often to deter PAC from gaining in momentum, building his confidence and before PAC gets a chance to warm up. It's a tall order for Floyd who likes to stay in his comfort zone in his typical cool, relaxed state. PAC's gonna shake up his world and apply pressure Floyd's gonna need to prepare for.
     
  3. kukoy

    kukoy Well-Known Member Full Member

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    The main reason Pacquiao WOULD NEVER beat Floyd is because the fight WOULD NEVER happen because Floyd WOULD NEVER fight him.
     
  4. Leon

    Leon The Artful Dodger Full Member

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    I'd pick a boxer who can tactically use the jab like Sugar Ray Robinson to limit Floyd's counter opportunities to beat him.

    A great swarmer with insane head movement such as Robearto Duran challenges Floyd too.
     
  5. Leon

    Leon The Artful Dodger Full Member

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    Floyd's a true SBAS fighter, he's a master at controlling the distance and initiating the clinch. Trust that he'll have his chances to think if he's on the outside and inside, where he excels and emmanuel sucks.
     
  6. Leon

    Leon The Artful Dodger Full Member

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    Whitaker is someone who took full advantage of being a lefty. He would agitate opponents with that sneaky southpaw jab, forcing them to come towards him, and this left them open to counters from the more awkward southpaw angles.
     
  7. KnuckleUp99

    KnuckleUp99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Floyd is a fighter who is sharp as a razor....but at 35 yrs old, him being more inactive than not only applies added resistance in being that "laser-like" pugilist we all have seen in the past. And again...Floyd is very well conditioned and has great legs but the problem is Floyd doesn't typically have to exert his energy..he doesn't have to dip into those reserves that a lot of fighters have to when the going get tough.

    Floyd's problem is that he's never have to really dig deep to win a fight...he's never been tested outside of the JLC fight and the DLH fight but phyiscally he was never pushed or hurt or in trouble in those competitive fights.

    PAC knows how to react..he knows what it feels like. he's proven to be able to overcome in those conditions. Floyd will have to take a crash course on fight night. That is a big question that no one knows how Floyd will respond. And I think that's why Floyd has taken this long to make the fight with PAC.

    I agree with that....PAC doesn't have a "Set up" punch which is typically the jab for most. PAC has a good jab but he doesn't' use it all that much b/c of his style and speed. he's able to get more bang for his buck with lead lefts as his left hand is faster than most of his opponents jabs. Floyd enjoys that same luxury although his styles foundation works behind the jab.
     
  8. KnuckleUp99

    KnuckleUp99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Logical and probably the majority will feel that way about picking a winner. The name of the game is boxing and Floyd is the best technical boxer in the game. He's also one of the sports most talented which makes for a problem for anyone he's fighting.

    But based on a few factors Manny makes this debate more difficult. He's just as talented...just as gifted and has the style and stance that causes Floyd problems. But the biggest thing for me is the fact that Floyd has shown TOO much hesitation on his end. A little too much of being unsure of himself is not something Floyd wears well, nor promotes his ability as a boxer. Confidence is something Floyd hardly ever lacks, especially in the ring. But with PAC he's shown a lot of signs that has me questioning his confidence and that makes me lean towards Manny pulling off the win.
     
  9. gooners!!

    gooners!! Boxing Junkie banned

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    I dont know if Mayweather will need much time to adjust though, he already has somewhat of blue print to follow(Morales, Marquez), so he should start out with a specific strategy to combat Manny, now whilst Manny has clearly improved, I think he showed against Cotto, Marquez, that he still has issues when you draw him foward and look to counter him.

    I think Mayweather will only need time to adapt, depending on the tempo Manny starts the fight, beit fast, or whether he warms into it. I can see what your saying if Manny starts fast, cause Mayweather will have to put him in his place earlier than expected, but that is Manny's small window of opportunity imo, it will just mean he'sx trying to exploit it earlier than expected, but if he doesn't get something done significantly in that period, he will slowly start to lose rounds as Mayweather gets into his rhythm, and the tempo starts to drop.
     
  10. gooners!!

    gooners!! Boxing Junkie banned

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    Age will be a question mark, cant disagree with that.

    Can Mayweather move as much as he might need to, in an effort to keep from giving Manny the stationary target he needs? Saying that, Morales didn't really move all that much, either did Marquez, and neither have a particularly good defense imo, yet they still offset Manny somewhat, whilst making him pay for his aggression.

    No that's a fair point, however I dont think its a question of what Manny CAN do when he gets into position, as he has good opportunities in that sense, his problems gonna be, getting his feet into position WITHOUT allowing Mayweather to take advantage of him on the way, as that might allow Mayweather to pickpocket his way to a decision, and with Manny's defense, lack of a jab to work his openings, I'm not convinced he can set up his own offense, and maintain a good enough D, particularly as Mayweather is longer than him, meaning because he's operating from further out, he will have more time and space to move away from his potential attacks, or counter them.
     
  11. SouthpawJab

    SouthpawJab On his way up!! 4-0!! Full Member

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    I don't think Pac has ever seen a fighter with this kind of size AND elite technical ability.On the other hand, Floyd hasn't seen this type of swarmer with such an elite work rate and intensity. I think Floyd wins because of the reach and timing. Of course, we have to see if he's slipped in the reflexes department before.
     
  12. KnuckleUp99

    KnuckleUp99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    PAC and Roach are hoping they utilize the blue print of an "OLD" version of PAC. The truth of the matter is PAC does have his same foundation that he's always had but he's added a bunch of new dimensions to his craft that has helped him evolve into what we have in Manny today. He's more dynamic, he's more controlled and he's more intelligent...while his foundation of being a relentless, non stop whirlwind still remains.

    But reality is Floyd NEVER watches fight film..he never prepares for any one style therefore in his fight with PAC he'll go through the typical "Feeling out process" before making mid fight adjustments for Manny.

    However...by that time it may be too late. PAC starts fast and furious and depending on how Floyd reacts may tell us early on who is going to win this fight.

    But you're absolutely correct......if Floyd gets his rythm early PAC not going to win. The same can be said about PAC... he'll need to get his rythm and impose his style early to prevent a shift in momentum by mid fight.

    it's a really intriguing match up of styles and there's no question why this fight is in such high demand. It's the perfect fight between two perfectly contrasting styles. One is more offensive, the other defensive....it's perceived as "good vs bad" and their stories couldn't be more different.
     
  13. KnuckleUp99

    KnuckleUp99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Good point with distance..... Floyd will have a better shot at controling distance than PACE. And that will be key if he is to win. Keeping PAC at bay again is a REALLY tall order. PAC's style is very hard to anticipate. He's in and out, shifting right to left and all the while throwing punches at some really odd angles.

    Floyd's keen ability to counter so effectively is attributed to reflexes...but more importantly KNOWING what his oppoents next move will be before he does it. The question is will he be able to do that against PAC who's rythm is unlike anyone elses in the sport. If anyone can figure out that puzzel it's gonna be someone like Floyd or someone who is TOO big for PAC to overcome.
     
  14. gooners!!

    gooners!! Boxing Junkie banned

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    That might be true in degrees, but only in degrees imo.

    I still see some of the same issues for Manny, its just that recently, those issues have been negated by the fact he's been fighting more dilerabte types of fighters, that said, even Cotto, who's not a noted counter puncher per say, was able to give him problems, as was Marquez in the rematch, so that is why I still have reservations.


    I think in this fight, he will of studied Manny a bit a bit more though, he's bound to of seen the Marquez, Cotto, Morales fights for sure.

    I'll be honest, I dont find that fight that intriguing, as I dont think Manny's chances are that good. I think a lot of fans are gonna be left disappointed by this fight.

    When I break the fight down in my own head, and this is only my opinion, its not fact, so I might be completely wrong, but I just see too many questions for Manny to answer, than what he can ask Floyd.
     
  15. victor879

    victor879 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Proof?

    Mayweather has the highest +/- in the sport. This has been commented many times even by the crew on HBO. You are wrong.