shots lamotta couldnt take....

This ^ His speed was amazing, he could wait until you'd commited to throwing your punch, land his own quicker and slip yours in one movement. The left hook and then uppercut that he landed on Griffin would bother LaMotta.

 

His speed and power was no better than Robinson who couldn't put a dent in LaMotta's Chin in 6 fights. Get out of here with that BS.

 

I think it's safe to say Roy Jones hit harder than Robinson.

 

i think its safe to say you are very wrong,Robinson was a monster puncher..

 

Heresy! S

 

Ketchel, Hearns, Jackson, McClellan....

 

He was but he was a WW or JMW for most of those Lamotta bouts, as soon as he grew into a solid 155lb in the ring he stopped Lamotta, Jones had as much P4P power and was a 168-182lbs in the ring, plus he was faster

 

the weight certainly is a factor. roy was just significantly bigger than robinson and at their respective peaks, jones had 21 pounds additional of pure muscle. at 168-175, he has a chance but i like mcclellan, jackson, foster, spinks, and maybe moore better to get the job done

 

atsch

The stoppage had nothing to do with some extra pounds on Robinson.

LaMotta was exhausted from poor training/weight draining and couldn't lift his arms at the end of the fight, but still stood on his feet, eating flush combinations without going down. The man is a freak.

And yes, I followed Jones in the 90s on HBO. He may outbox LaMotta but he isn't stopping him. Absurd to compare any of his stoppages to an abnormality like the Raging Bull.

You listing Jones as hard a hitter as someone like Satterfield is just ming boggling. Satterfield was a one punch KO artist at HW and below LHW was an absolute killer, all but one 8 round decision by KO. As damaging as Jones' unorthdox counters were, has he ever blasted out big top 5 HWs with 30 lb weight advantages like Satterfield? I would say only Marciano and Louis were better KO punchers in that era, not p4p, period. You beat Satterfield by walking into him and taking his best punches, you can take about anything south of HW elite.

 

Agreed.

And when you look close at Jones at middle, where are the ko's against the top chins anyway? Castro was never close to going. And he was a jr middle and not in Jake's league. Or where was a Hopkins ko? That was another one not close to happening.

Getting ko's over Ricky Stackhouse's of the world are a lot different than ko'ing elite chins. When did Jones ko an elite chin?

 

Satterfield was beaten 25 times, did everyone who beat him have an ATG chin

No you're clearly a newbie to the sport, to question Jones as a puncher below 175lbs makes you look seriously foolish. Lets list a few should we:

Virgil Hill - never stopped in 10years of championship boxing, destroyed in 4, went on to be a cruser champ after

Malinga - never stopped by Benn (x2), Eubank, Rochiagani, fighting countless title fights - taken out in 6.

Thornton - went 12 with Eubank/Toney, KO'd in 3

Sosa - just beat Charles Williams, went 12 with Toney/Nunn/Lyles, stopped in 2

Tate - went 12 with Julian Jackson ko'd in 2 by Jones

Griffin - never before stopped, ko'd in 1

Clinton Woods - never stopped before or since while fighting world championship level for 9years

Satterfield isn't necessarily any bigger puncher because he ko'd HWs, is Foster not a big puncher because he didn't ko HWs? And at HW he was a 180lb and prime, against Lamotta he was 164lbs and green. Knocking someone out isn't just about power its about accuracy, landing your best punches, we don't know if Satterfield managed this against Lamotta

Lamotta was stopped by Robinson, Nardico and Murphy. Jones hits harder than all those men. It's no coincidence that Lamotta got stopped he didn't have 15lbs on on Robinson. Yes Lamotta was stopped on his feet but that doesn't mean he wouldn't have been ko'd if the ref didn't intervene. Do you think Bruno had a great chin because he was stopped on his feet against Lewis and Tyson? As for the 'weight drained' excuse, he only had to cut 8lbs, all you have to do is not drink much the day before, skip breakfast and get in the sauna, cutting 8lbs is a piece of cake

 

- Most ran until he gassed, or sparked him before he could get going. Layne and LaMotta are the few that beat him, by slugging it out and taking his best shots. But I'm just a novice to the sport apparently...I'm sure you know more about Mr. Satterfield....

-He who smelt it, usually delt it. And I didn't question Jones' power, just his ability to knockout an abnormality like LaMotta with potshot counters. Jones wouldn't pursue a stoppage against Jake, not his style if he can coast on his boxing.

-Foster did KO HWs, though he didn't match Satterfield's success as a pure puncher above 175. From Middleweight to Heavyweight, Satterfield had the same success as a KO artist. Remarkable power. Odd, you would come to the conclusion that men who never even tested their power above 175 lbs hit harder. Really? Satterfield was a proven one punch threat to everyone from 160-220+ but you think weight division specific fighters hit harder?

How about Jones, who did hit Ruiz flush countless times, but couldn't knock him down. Satterfield overcame bigger size advantages than that to blow out some sturdy top 5 HW contenders. But in your world, Roy Jones hit harder than Satterfield? Just...I can't even grasp the logic behind this ****. Moore, Satterfield, and Foster are at least proven to be near the same level as elite sub 200lb punchers.


-LaMotta/Satterfield isn't exactly a mystery fight. There are several articles that describe Satterfield landing his punches and even badly shaking LaMotta with an early right hand but unable to knock him down.

-Its not an excuse, its LaMotta's own fought for failing to manage his weight properly. Ok, everyone knows LaMotta was poorly prepared and weight drained when he gave up against Robinson and has accepted it. So you dispute LaMotta even being unusually fatigued in the late rounds when he wasn't fighting back and letting Robinson go crazy on him? But once more your the only enlightend one, who sees beyond the veil. It was Robinson's weight that made the difference..not LaMotta being a headcase at the end of his rope or anything. :nono

 

I guarantee that were Hagler to have absorbed those murderous volleys that LaMotta [weakened by making weight], took from Ray Robinson, Hagler would have been FLOORED and stopped. No 160 pounder could have took those punches ,and remained upright. NONE. Of course a fighter like Harry Greb, because of his great leg speed, would have if need be, have been out of striking position of Robinson. But I cannot see any 160 pounder absorb such vicious accumulated punches, without going down...
That is why Harry Greb, for instance was so formidable. He had an iron chin , but never had to absorb clusters of punches, cause he was never in the same spot at all. LaMotta just had to take those shots . Best chin ever on a middleweight, but far, far from a top ten great...

 

maligna is the only one i would classify as an elite (for his time) chin

 

:thinki agree that lamotta is probably the best chin at middle, with shout outs to greb as you mentioned and zale. still, i don't think we can say for certain hagler would have been knocked out and we never saw him hurt or even stunned. marvin took a MONSTER in hearns and absorbed his best shots without blinking. i would put hagler in and around lamotta's class to be honest...