The ESB British Forum Encyclopedia

i have faith:thumbsup

 

I take it that the rason none of you have taken on El Diamante is because either A) You want to see how his great career further pans out and/or B) You all know I love him too much too see someone else do it.

 

Well I might have to give it a go then :good

Gonna' try and do a couple more this weekend. Though Napoles will be more like Saad than Payakaroon and take a lot more time :good

 

Where do we think Napoles ranks in the 147 pantheon?

With the Rays, Gavilan, McClarin etc or a step down?

 

Flea - the Payakaroon piece is fantastic. Someone who I knew nothing about beforehand, but I really enjoyed the read and YT vids. Thank you.

 

Yep, in that pack IMO. I usually have him at #4 or #5 myself, I'd probably have him and Rodriguez close together. Mad considering he was really a lightweight. Whilst the likes of Hedgemon Lewis and Ernie Lopez were good rather than great, his win over Griffith is resounding (and whilst the rumours about his weight may be true, I personally think he unravelled after Napoles dropped him early) and his two wins over Cokes superb.

Top of me head

1. Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Kid Gavilan
4. Ray Leonard
5. Jack Britton
6. Jose Napoles
7. Barney Ross
8. Luis Manuel Rodriguez
9. Jimmy McLarnin
10. Emile Griffith

So, there you have it

McLarnin is in the top ten of course, his win over Young Corbett III cannot be understated, but Ross got the better of their series as the weight and Leonard was done by that point (still useful, but not a top level win IMO, despite the level of opponent)

The likes of LMR, McLarnin, Hearns, Mickey Walker etc etc all figure to be in the top ten. A hard division to gauge due to it's depth and the high number of quality fighters in there.

The first fight is one of the few fights I consider to be a P.P.P: Punch Perfect Performance :good And Cokes was truly a top-notch Welter. Of course, 'Mantequilla' scores extremely high in the 'application of skillset' part of my criteria, as one of the most purely skilled fighters I have ever had the pleasure to witness.

Gaz, you were around for Payakaroon: care to read my entry and give me some perspective from the time? Would like to know how accurate it is, pretty hard to find much info on him apart from a few fights (in boxing that is) :good

:good Cheers mate. An underrated fighter (hardly surprising really ) but as a fighter, I'm a massive fan. As a lot of you know I'm a combat sports enthusiast in general, and Payakaroons Muay Thai exploits are jaw dropping!!! A serious hard nut, and as you also know I was a big enthusiast for lower weight Thai fighters before I cared to look into how fit their women were ;-)

 

I have to admit Flea, other than the Fenech fight, SP is a fighter I read about rather than watched back in the day.

Garza was a good fighter though mate, just a bit "kill or be killed".

Great post!!!!!

 

Thanks. Judging by what I'd seen/read I assumed he was fairly manafactured. I'll take that out on your say so and feel confident doing so :good Thanks. 'Good' is what he'll now be described as ;-)

 

:rofl

 

Here is the fight in question: it certainly is a screamer!!! :bbb

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy64HxDZTEc[/ame]

Beautiful left hook from Kid Meza to finish it. Garza is described at one point as 'the hardest puncher in boxing P4P'. Gaz, did he have such a fearsome reputation? I must've missed that bit of commentary first time around, was he a fairly highly regarded fighter at the time then?

 

You're right about McClaren at the weight Flea. And Rodriguiz, he seems to be the forgotten man in a lot of ATG discussions.

I know you do the lists mate. Where do you have Curry and Hearns roughly?

 

Yeah, mate. He'd won the title from Bernal who was considered to be a solid if not exceptional champ, Meza was a big upset. The best "lazy" description I can give was that he was thought to be a smaller version of Cuevas. Not perfect but a decent fighter and a real danger.

 

Miguel Canto :think

 

Steve McClaren was at his best at FC Twente IMO, he over-achieved at 'Boro and his England reign was pathetic ;-)

As I say, Welterweight is tough due to the sheer quality. I'd have Hearns above Curry, but both have only a few top notch wins at the weight. Hearns of course faced the better overall oppo', but both score highly in the attributes department. They're both knocking on the door of the top ten IMO, you could feasibly exchange them for either no.9 or .10 IMO, though I wouldn't be entirely happy with it :good

I would also say Duran is in the top 20. Dominant performances over Palomino and Leonard, don't make up too much of a Welterweight resume added to the other bodies he faced there, but those are two amazing wins. If he isn't, he's not far off it IMO, two truly sensational wins. Only loss at the weight is to a guaranteed top five placer.

 

:nono Chan-Hee Park ;-)

http://pann.nate.com/video/210374362

Not on youtube I don't think, not anymore anyway, but this is a SERIOUS two round fight!!! I strongly urge you to watch it :good

Sadly his fight with Canto isn't online. I've seen bits of it (am waiting for a full copy from some Jock kid :fire) but Park puts on a punch perfect performance against an ATG in only his eleventh pro fight!