Holyfield 89-91 vs Holyfield 96-97

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Bonecrusher, Jul 26, 2011.


  1. lefthook31

    lefthook31 Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Tyson had no plan B. He came back to an empty corner. Holyfield would be fighting a different fight to Douglas, but if Tyson struggled with Holyfield I think the same thing would happen that happened in 96. I just think earlier on the stylistic matchup always favor's Tyson, because if you fought with Tyson, you would get your head handed to you, and I think Tyson would have taken Holyfield much more seriously and I believe Tyson's timing and overall ability was still a lot better.
    Tyson changed his corner after losing to Douglas and you saw and heard better instructions from Giachetti, getting Tyson to use his jab, punch in combination, and come into fights in better shape.
     
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  2. Bonecrusher

    Bonecrusher Lineal Champion Full Member

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    Yeah his corner was a joke vs Douglas..
     
  3. Bonecrusher

    Bonecrusher Lineal Champion Full Member

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    How do you see it playing out in their Primes?
     
  4. lefthook31

    lefthook31 Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    IMO the best Tyson always beats the best Holyfield, and I feel Tyson regressed very quickly after the Spinks fight.
     
  5. Bonecrusher

    Bonecrusher Lineal Champion Full Member

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    I am on the other side of the fence.. I think Holyfield wins a UD in their primes.. I just think style wise he had what it takes to beat Tyson.. You need a few things to beat MIke.. 1. Chin- check Evander had a rock solid jaw... 2. The ability to move and box on your toes - check he was a smooth boxer at time... 3. Toughness-Grit -check he was a rough customer and loved fighting in the trenches.... 4. Enough Power to move Mike- check again, Holyfield could bang and always threw wicked combinations, some of the prettiest I have ever seen in heavyweight history. He didn't have one shot power like Tyson but would rip you up to the head and body... 5. Confidence - we all know Evander is pretty arrogant as a fighter, though an ATG he was always maybe not quite as good as he thought (that holds true even today) which is why he still fights... 6. No Fear - which kind of goes hand and hand with confidence, for better or worse Evander has always felt he could get it done and fears no one.... I think he would be able to make it through many rocky moments and out score mike over the duration of the fight, and if he is able to hurt Mike late and steps on the gas he may even get the late TKO... But I see the UD being the most likely scenario...
     
  6. lefthook31

    lefthook31 Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Holyfield was hurt badly against Cooper and Bowe. It would be interesting to see Tyson on the other end. He would have been the best finisher Holyfield ever fought.
     
  7. Bonecrusher

    Bonecrusher Lineal Champion Full Member

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    Yeah good point.. It would also interesting to see if prime Tyson could absorb what Holyfield could and would deliver.. Tyson never fought anyone who put their punches together like Holyfield did...
     
  8. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    96 Holyfield really wasn't an improvement as some would suggest, it was a way of covering up his newfound limitations; namely a growing number of injuries and his rapidly failing speed and stamina. There was certainly some advantages to his more physical style but not as many as when he could move and put together high volume combinations for 12 rounds.

    And its not like 96 Evander didn't get hurt against Tyson either. He got rocked a few times and had to fight his way out. Just clinching doesn't work against Mike, even than. You can survive that way, but ultimately you have to back him up with your own firepower if you want to win, and that's what Holyfield would always have done.
     
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  9. left right left

    left right left Well-Known Member Full Member

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    You say Holyfield of '90 may have been to small for Tyson, but Bonecrusher just posted a video of '90 Holyfield trouncing a 235 lb heavyweight puncher (that was 23-0, 23 KO's- a record to start a career at the time?).. see rd 6. Real good fight between two contenders at that time. He went from there to Douglas and Foreman?

    Holyfield of '90 (pushing 30 yrs old) was still 4 yrs older than Tyson, with as much or more boxing experience, perhaps. He would have went right back down low-blow on Tyson if Mike strayed low then too, etc., just like he did in '96. Tyson wouldn't have overwhelmed Holyfield in '90.
     
  10. Bonecrusher

    Bonecrusher Lineal Champion Full Member

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    Yeah I think many people under rate how strong Holyfield was even when he first moved up to Heavyweight.. He was a fitness and health machine.. Evander trained hard always and was always strong, he always did extensive weight training before every fight back then as he was always working on building his Heavyweight body.. I said in my original post he weighed what 7-8 pounds more vs Tyson then earlier in his career, is that really much of a difference? I can see the argument for Holyfields style in 96 maybe being more suited to fight Tyson but the weight (strength) issue I do not really agree with to much.. I will say that when Holyfield stepped into the ring with Bowe in fight number two he did seem a bigger and stronger fighter then the one who took on Bowe in fight number one. Which I believe helped him, that and the fact that he stuck to his plan better and knew when to box and when to slug.. But Bowe was 6'5 and around 240-250 pounds if memory serves, so in that fight it may have helped him more since he was at a significant size and weight disadvantage.... But Tyson let us not forget is 5'11 and around 215-218 pounds so its not like he is a big heavyweight..
     
  11. Bonecrusher

    Bonecrusher Lineal Champion Full Member

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    Many years later any new thoughts on this one?
     
  12. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Holyfield at a younger age was a much better fighter, he had a lot more intensity and threw a hell of a lot more punches and combinations. He would have always beaten Tyson IMO, pretty gutting we never got to see it in the early 90's.
     
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  13. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Pretty much the same as when Ali got the question who would win of his younger and older self. The younger, quicker and busier version takes it. The chance the older version has is to sucker in the younger less experienced version in on a big punch. Holy was always prone to get into exchanges, but on the other hand I don't see the older Holy, or really any fighter, knocking him out.
     
  14. Bonecrusher

    Bonecrusher Lineal Champion Full Member

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    I mostly agree, but it would be interesting to see young Holy trying to prove himself vs Veteran proven Old man Holy.. The old man would set traps and try and grind down his younger self but would probably get outworked by the younger fresher work rate machine that was the younger Evander..
     
  15. Saad54

    Saad54 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    1989-91, actually '92 Holyfield stood toe to toe too much. But, he did outbox Foreman and Holmes. Of course, they were old and slow. The '95-'96 Holyfield fought smartly against Tyson. Would he have done the same if he had fought Tyson in '91? Who knows. If he fought the way he fought Dokes, Stewart and Cooper, Tyson kos him.