Best losing effort: Duran-Hagler or Whitaker-DLH?

SRL was also better vs Hagler than Duran was. That SRL would have decisioned that Duran soundly.

There were periods in the Hagler fight where Duran shut down into survival mode but that tends to get glazed over. Hagler's timidness and over admiration in parts has added greatly to the Duran legend. Against the same Duran in a rematch i would be surprised in Duran even lasted the 15. Hagler had Duran wilting after, i think it was 6 and 7 before paranoia set in. Hagler had run short of gas in a fight or two prior and i think this was 1/2 the problem, but never the less he won comfortably.

 

Yes indeed. You save my fingers from unnecessary typing.

 

I disagree pretty strongly with this, my man. Both fought in spurts but Leonard stayed outside the reach often against a slowed-down Hagler. Duran stayed inside often against an arguably prime Hagler. Consider also that one was 15 rounds. Consider also that when Leonard did engage Hagler, he had notes in his head ....from Duran.

I agree here though, my man. If Duran stuck roids in those steaks and laced his cola with coca, he would still not be able to beat Leonard at any time after that one night. Unfortunately for Leonard, Duran was an hour- long perfect storm in Montreal.

Well, Mag actually made a good point. Some judges love skill and Duran was special against Hagler because he had to summon something different than controlled rage in there. I had Duran losing too, but not by as much as some here.

Yeah, he was in survival mode in many spots, even early. I see it as a result of nothing more than Hagler's heaviness. Duran wasn't attacking him like he did Moore and company but he was in the pocket, feeling his strength, and it wore him out between the ears as much as physically. That pressure, you know? I hated guys like that -those lead guys who you suspected you ain't gonna hurt no matter what the hell you do to them and who you know can hurt you any moment. It's hard to explain but you get tired -and fast. It's kind of like new jacks who come in -athletes even. they get in the ring and are like "oh snap" he hit me on my arm and I have a headache and my shots ain't doing dink. Even experienced guys experience something like that against these types of fighters. The heavy ones. They're nightmares.

 

As to the question, before another dude/dudette checks off "Whitaker-DLH" they should ask themselves a question: What other past-prime natural lightweight in history is going 15 rounds against a near-prime beast like Marvin Hagler?

 

Duran wasn't a natural LW at this stage, he grew bigger, never made the LW limit after the age of 26 and was a good sized WW. He was also what 3 years older than Hagler

But in answer to your question how about Ray Robinson :yep

 

How many men do you know who are physically "still growing" after the age of 24? He was not a good sized WW -he was box shaped, shorter, and with a shorter reach than he should have at that weight. He ate himself into the division and every division since. But for the car accident, he'd be campaigning today in the Blubber-Bubble Division which is beyond HW.

How about Pacquiao? Is he a natural WW? Nah. You know that.

As to Robinson, he was absolutely not a natural lightweight when he was whipping them in 1940/1. He was a developing welterweight.

 

I don't think many men don't fill out after the age of 24

Well Robinson should have been a LW champ in '41 when he beat Angott, but it was an over the weight fight so Angot could keep his championship. I think Robinson would have fought at LW for a 2-3 years if he won the LW championship

Duran was weighing 140lbs for none title fights as a 23-24yo, and he would have had to drain to make LW after that age because he was a big LW and moving up to WW really suited him, there wasn't an ounce of fat on him Montreal. And yeshe may not have the longest reach, that doesn't mean he isn't big at the weight, Duran is a big strong primed WW

Pacman isn't as small as people think, he's 147lb in the ring, other WWs are around 155-160lbs in the ring, although Mayweather around 06/07 was 147 in the ring too

 

Good stuff.

Man, if this world were just a little more fair and predictable, we wouldn't hear this talk of Pacquiao's being the first four time linear champion, because Robinson woulda already done it 60 years ago... World Lightweight, World Welterweight, World Middleweight, and World Light Heavyweight. That would have outdone Armstrong and it is one of the reasons why I see Robinson over Armstrong always and forever... Robinson was right there to become king of 50% of the traditional weight classes!

Nah. Gil Clancy said in '79 that he could handle welterweight and I agree with him, but that is different than what you're saying.

Listen! Duran was a natural lightweight. That added weight on him after '77 was the result of steaks and beer and diminishing testosterone. Sure he was ripped against Leonard in the first one, but so isn't Pacquiao in every WW fight but no one in their right mind would say that little guy is a natural welterweight. And guess what -Pac and Duran are physically quite comparable.

You're no dummy...

I think that you ought to go sit down, make yourself a

This content is protected

(ask me how!) and accept that Duran is a natural lightweight. Once you do, you're going to understand what that really means in terms of boxing history and Duran's place in it ...and your opinion of his accomplishments are going to inevitably rise.

Or, you can drink your

This content is protected

, go to bed early with Pachilles and dream of sugar plums and poopy bums and pretend that Duran ain't no big deal, that he was really a welterweight/middleweight with good PR.

Come on, Power Puncher. Is it gonna be this...

This content is protected

or this?

This content is protected

 

Stonehands is right, Duran had to keep his poo's in to make Welterweight. It was only a matter of time before this weight-making technique backfired(New Orleans)

 

finish your milk and get to bed --or you'll get the belt!

 

Tell me what you think. Is Duran's needing a poo a legitimate excuse?

 

That's what Randy Gordon said. I'm not so sure I believe a word of it. Why the hell didn't Duran take off for the dressing room like a bat outta hell if he had to go so bad? He was hanging around in the ring! I don't buy Gordon's claim.

I'm convinced that Leonard embarrassed Duran and Duran took his ball and went home. Hell, maybe Duran regressed in his head to some childhood incident -maybe some cat throwing mangos at him and embarassing him in front of a chica. Who knows. No excuse will do -angling for a rubber match, cramps, risks of public defecation, disgust with Leonard's tactics -it's all the same. There-is-no-legitimate-excuse-for-Duran's-quit-job. Period.

Here's my theory: I think that Duran knew in his heart of hearts that Leonard was capable of knocking him out in the later rounds. Duran couldn't bare the thought of it, so he had a mental burb and became a momentary coward and will regret it for the rest of his life.

...and he should.

 

Good post :good
And I love the name

 

Whitaker does worse against Hagler than Duran did, Duran does at least as well against DLH as Whitaker did. That seals it for me.

 

Duran carried the weight better than Whitaker.