When bowe threw his belt in the trash...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Jul 30, 2011.


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  1. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    When bowe threw his belt away refusing to fight lewis, did he effectively retire his lineage?

    Can a champion be a champion if they throw their belt away rather than fight the top contender?

    Or would you argue that lewis wasn't actually the top contender, was there a more deserving contender win got a shot instead of lewis?

    I'm not just talking about a man not fighting his mandatory, i'm talking about a man throwing his belt away and not fighting the top contender.

    How do you view this incident in it's isolation? I don't want a huge who ducked who debate, I just wanna know if you still considered bowe the champ when he threw his belt away.

    If you do count him as retiring his lineage, when did it restart again? Did lewis pick it up or was it tyson when he destroyed seldon and bruno.

    If you don't view it as retiring his lineage, who was a more worthy contender at the time and did bowe fight/negotiate them instead of lewis.
     
    lufcrazy, Jul 30, 2011
    lufcrazy, Jul 30, 2011
    #1
  2. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Well he's still got the lineage but he's discarded the belt and renegaded on a deal to fight.

    It effectively split the championship and it split everyones opinion of who was the real champ or simply THE BEST HW IN THE WORLD, which is what being a champion should be proving in any case. Ironically Holyfield would take Lewis's WBC lineage, while Lewis took Bowe's lineage from Briggs before there unification
     
    PowerPuncher, Jul 30, 2011
    PowerPuncher, Jul 30, 2011
    #2
  3. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Bowe did a lot of stupid things in his career .. he was not an extremely bright or sophisticated guy ... throwing out the belt was clearly a matter of ducking Lennox Lewis .. he had just beaten Holyfield, was at his career high and Newman wanted Riddick no where near Lennox who torn his head off as an amateur and would have likely done it as a pro ..
     
    he grant, Jul 30, 2011
    he grant, Jul 30, 2011
    #3
  4. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Yeah the real champion. That would be better wording. By the tyson - holyfield fight the traditional lineage meant nothing anyways.

    Can it be argue the real championship actually flowed lewis-mccall-bruno-tyson.

    It's like how bradley effectively ended his reign as number 1 lww by refusing to fight khan. Got me thinking back to the early 90's.

    Could it be argued bowe didn't fight lewis in favour of a more credible opponent? Because if not, i'm not convinced he can maintain his claim as the true champ.
     
    lufcrazy, Jul 30, 2011
    lufcrazy, Jul 30, 2011
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  5. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    I wouldn't argue Lewis became the real champion, but I would argue the championship was split, their became 2 arguments for ownership of the championship. This was back when the belts meant allot and the WBC was the best/strongest historically of the lot

    No Bowe certainly didn't take on anyone nearly as credible, Lewis was very very clearly no1 contender by a long way. The only arguably defense on par is a Holyfield rematch, which wouldn't happen for 2 fights.
     
    PowerPuncher, Jul 30, 2011
    PowerPuncher, Jul 30, 2011
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  6. Foreman Hook

    Foreman Hook ☆☆☆ G$ora ☆☆☆ Full Member

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    Riddy Bowe DUCKED Lenny Lewis, cos he only offered him a shoddy $3million [career high payday], But that only 15% of what Bowe was gonna get. Bowe did this ***** move, cos when he challenge Holyfeild in 1992, he only got 15% purse compared to Holyfeild, so he could not bare to be generous to Lenny Lewis. When Lenny told Bowe he needed more money, Bowe ******edly chose to throw his WBC belt away, rather than give Lewis teh 50/50 purse split he proper deserved.
     
    Foreman Hook, Jul 30, 2011
    Foreman Hook, Jul 30, 2011
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  7. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Yeah i'm not sure lewis beating ruddock is enough to say he's better than bowe.

    I think up until tyson beat seldon it's hard labelling a true champ from back then.

    Trying to make a fight, or being stripped for not facing a journeyman who paid his fees, I don't think that changes anyone's status. But so publicly ducking an opponent and throwing a belt away, that's a ridiculous decision. As I said earlier i'm not sure the lineage meant anything by the time foreman "beat" schulz. I think between bowe throwing his belts away and foreman going into hiding the traditional lineage no longer signified who the true champ was.
     
    lufcrazy, Jul 30, 2011
    lufcrazy, Jul 30, 2011
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  8. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    You could also argue Moorer won the lineage from Schulz
     
    PowerPuncher, Jul 30, 2011
    PowerPuncher, Jul 30, 2011
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  9. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Haha indeed you can! I think either way it spins, it still ends up back with lewis, but it just shows how meaningless it was to be a lineal champ in that time frame.
     
    lufcrazy, Jul 30, 2011
    lufcrazy, Jul 30, 2011
    #9
  10. crippet

    crippet Well-Known Member Full Member

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    When Bowe did this - He affectively became known as the man who ran from Lennox Lewis.
    When this became apparent - the priority of his career should have been a fight with Lewis to nullify this stigma
    His whole legacy hangs on beating Holyfield - who beat him in the return when fighting a sensible fight [their 3rd fight is meaningless]
    I think you cant label him a true champion when you consider that some true champions were willing to die for something he ran away from
     
    crippet, Jul 30, 2011
    crippet, Jul 30, 2011
    #10
  11. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Bowe and Holmes threw there title away when Bowe refused to fight the guy who stopped him in the amateurs (for me he conceded) Holmes gave up a title to fight Page(who was THEN thought of as dangerous) Holmes also avoided the #1 contenders in the non-partial ratings and decided to recognize the bogus alphabet rankings...I have to penalize him in his ATG status for his avoidance's ...How could one not
     
    Bummy Davis, Jul 30, 2011
    Bummy Davis, Jul 30, 2011
    #11
  12. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I think what makes the situation with bowe different is that he was not as universally regarded as the best. When holmes got stripped he was still seen as the premiere heavyweight.

    After bowe threw his belt in the trash he lost a debatable fight to holyfield who lost a debatable fight to moorer who got knocked out by a 46 year old man who went into oblivion. The lineage lost it's meaning.

    Larry was considered the premiere heavyweight even after his retirement.
     
    lufcrazy, Jul 30, 2011
    lufcrazy, Jul 30, 2011
    #12
  13. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Any admiration that I had for Bowe went when he did that stunt with the trashcan.
     
    Stevie G, Jul 30, 2011
    Stevie G, Jul 30, 2011
    #13
  14. Kalasinn

    Kalasinn ♧ OG Kally ♤ Full Member

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    I'm not sure Lewis deserved a 50/50 purse split against Bowe in '93, but 60/40 would've been fair.
     
    Kalasinn, Jul 30, 2011
    Kalasinn, Jul 30, 2011
    #14
  15. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Agree :good
     
    lufcrazy, Jul 30, 2011
    lufcrazy, Jul 30, 2011
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