Who was more skilled : Louis or Robinson ?????

1. Louis was 37 against Conn, Schmelling and Walcott now?

2. Galivan could do it all, just because he's on the front foot doesn't make him a swarmer. Giardello was obviously a mover, I think Bell was too

3. Well if he was (I haven't got the stats) it wasn't in his prime, Robinson had way more fights and fought way past his prime.

4. Schmelling, Conn, Walcott all clearly outboxed Louis and Charles if you want to include past prime fights

 

Robinson had 3 times as many fights as Louis and I believe he went down about the same amount of times.

 

This really is one amazingly tough question. I think that both are as close to perfect for the style they fought as one could get, although they did fight different styles. Robinson was the flashier fighter, but I am not so sure that Flash equates to skills. Robinson moved more, but i again, this is not necessarilly being more skilled. In reality, on pure skills, i think you have to give both fighters a 10. Being honest, you cant really point to what either fighter technically does wrong, most of the time. I think a draw is the only fair comparison in relation to skills comparison, even if it is the easy way out.

 

Conn, Schmeling, and Walcott were all 40 pounds lighter than Louis now? :nono

Not at that stage of his career, he couldn't.

And who outboxed Robby decisively, and also floored him.

So he wasn't in his prime against LaMotta (twice), Levine, Bell, Graziano, Grispos, OR White? So when on earth was his "prime"??

And on the flipside, Louis fought much bigger men (which YOU made an issue of earlier), and arguably fought more big punchers despite having less fights.

Conn never even made it to the final bell against Louis (unless you count his no-decision with Louis in '48, in which Louis reportedly toyed with him), and Walcott lost a debated decision in a close tactical fight.

 

Robinson has a big edge in footwork in my opinion. This is not to say that Louis had poor footwork but whatever he could do, Robinson had the ability to do also and he could also move around the ring at a fast pace while being able to punch with knockout power.

Louis does have the crisper punching technique in my opinion, but Robinson's creative punching style worked extremely well for him because of his speed. Few can claim to have thrown a looping right hand to the body like Robinson.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGsAWhOntCM[/ame]

 

He probably does - but is that a question of skill or natural talent?

 

It's a skill.

 

I understand your point about footwork, and you are right, but the point about comparing the two, is how more skilled is Robinson's footwork. Theoretically that footwork makes him more mobile and better. But, it certainly failed him in the Maxim fight (i know the reasons obviously).

My point is that is it necessarilly more skilled to have faster feet, or is it more skilled to have more conservative feet. I really think it is fruitless to split the two on anything. They both do everything as good as the other even when they do it differently. Even their chin and heart is pretty much equal.

 

If it was just a skill, then it wouldn't be dependent on how fast a person's feet are, which clearly isn't the case.

 

Louis's footwork served him well as a conservative, methodical stalking type which he was trained to be, but I feel he suffered from balance and coordination issues which prevented him from catching up to opponents as quickly as he could have in some situations. But he made up for this in a lot of ways.

The Conn fight counts as a W for Louis obviously, but at the same time you can't see a prime Robinson put in the same situation against a smaller man. See Robinson against Angott:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcyqmnXNY-w[/ame]


The pressure from Robinson came at a much faster pace which allowed him to easier make use of his physical advantages against his smaller opponent, forcing them to fight him at his game.

There are a lot of people with "fast feet" but few with the ability to use them as Robinson. If you watch some Louis training films, it's apparent that he had fairly nimble feet himself but it just wasn't possible for him to move around quickly without putting himself at risk and taking away from his power.

 

My2Sense covered my responses to PP, although I'd certainly admit that Louis had a much worse pound for pound chin than Robinson(who i consider to have an iron jaw in his prime), and sometimes a lack of defensive speed in slips and coordination once he got older.

Robinson> Louis against smaller men

Louis> Robinson against bigger men

 

I would like to have seen more of Louis against truly skillful opposition before I make a definite call here (and more footage of prime Robby overall). I mean, Louis looked deadly against guys like Carnera, the two Baers, Simon, Galento etc, but they were also woefully lacking in skill. If Louis had met guys like Charles and Walcott in his prime instead of well after it we would get a clearer picture, I think.

 

For what it's worth both Charles and Walcott certainly got the Tunney/Holmes treatment, snubbed somewhat as skillful but ultimately a disappointment to the public who wanted a dynamic champion with the same popularity of their predecessors.

Louis was still able to snuff Walcott out far past his best in a rematch with no blackburn...And was not ineffective against Charles. I think a more aggressive and fluid version would have definitely done the job. Louis did look devastating against skilled outboxer competition in Pastor, Sharkey, a very faded JH Lewis, and managed to snuff Conn in an instant despite being in a mediocre condition against one of the greatest fighters ever.

The guys i really would ahve liked to see Louis fight were Bivins, Ray, Sheppard in defenses.

 

Right because someone scores a KO after being outboxed for the majority of the fight it takes away the fact they were outboxed in the first place and because a boxer fights on the front foot behind a jab for 1 of his fights it means he's a swarmer atsch

 

Effectively yes, robbing someone of their consciousness in an instant when they were doing their best to not let you gain any ground on them matters.

Close but no cigar don't mean much in the squared circle.