Why is Calzaghe considered a ducker?

truth be told it was infront of joe for many years, most importantly when hopkins and jones reigned supreme.

building on it after their fall is the main catalyst why such a talented fighter gets so much bad rep in boxing forums....so 'building on it' when the fat lady had finished and left the building should feel as hollow as it actually was.

EDIT : although the hopkins win was a feather in joe's cap, it certainly wasn't more than that

 

simple and short answer to this...joe calzaghe is considered a ducker and a hype job because hes not american...simples..:good

 

thats a nice backdoor way out of a debate, but if you really believe that answer my posts above

 

not really.... which is probably why hopkins pulled out of fighting him back in the day: high risk, not enough exposure (or money) to represent a reward from victory

khan has had far more u.s. media exposure becuase of his marketablility in britain, and therefore he has had an easier time getting big fights

 

we're going around in circles now... if you can't concede that khan would be in exactly the same point joe chose to be in most of his career, had khan also decided to shun upping the ante in the US.

like i've already said, hopkins and jones were always there for joe if he'd made that move. and if he had and made his play to fight either of them and it didn't come off - i'd be canning the two greats for not stepping up.

 

yea we are goin in circles, i guess thats why theres so many threads on calzaghe on here..

i just think that khans media exposure and the fact that he makes more money than calzaghe (at this stage in his career) has helped him get big fights early on, afterall calzghe took on all the best americans in his division (not that the standard was great) and then offered hopkins 3 mil to fight him in 2003, which he turned down....theres not really that much more that he could do...

 

I understand irony and counter-arguments concercing the aforementioned. However I gat to be straight since I have almost all of Calzaghe, Jones Jr, Hopkins and James Toney tapes... The question put was why could he or Frank W have been considered as ducking anyone. I told you why... Now, to the new question at hand. Let's skip these names and remember about that big WBA MW Title fight between the guy who defeated Michael Watson as well, Mike McCallum and Steve Collins who would beat both Chris Eubank and Nigel Benn later. McCallum won clearly in a war in Boston Convention Center, Mass. in the same night Foreman brutalized Gerry Cooney. Consider that McCallum also lost to James Toney so I think this speaks for itself... Local Welsh hero Calzaghe was not a better fighter than Steve Collins under the Petronelli brothers ( Marv Marvin Hagler trainers)... In my personal opinion, Calzaghe in time and space, loses to some of the not mentioned names, yes, no irony...

 

Or...less tha fact that he's not an American, and more to do with the misfortune that he is from Whales. :good

 

toney is a deluded, steroid cheating disgrace. he took steroids because he is a cheat. he don't fight off a level playing field, he cheats because he knows he is not good enough without cheating. Toney has been caught cheating only twice but the glaring reality is that he will have taken steroids repeatedly but only caught twice :deal

even in toneys prime, he was only winning life and death split decisions with the likes of dave tiberi, sosa, and johnson

hell, a prime toney could only grab a draw with sanderline williams :rofl

james toney fan boys are so sad on esb that they try and big up wins against a eurobum like jirov and against an iran barkley that had recently lost to nigel benn in one round and then lost to a shot roberto duran at middleweight, thats right - a 37 year old duran fighting at middleweight :deal

toney then got his ass kicked by the likes of thadzi and midget griffin

to make things worse, toney went callin out fighters from the ufc and then embarrassed the whole of boxing by instantly tapping out like a *** :-(

toneys run of fights in the super-middleweight division is perhaps the most embarrassing run of any champion in the history of the sport :yep

toney may have been able to get away with his bull**** in america through the help of ring comic and hbo brainwashing, but the rest of the world are not as ignorant and blinkered when assessing toneys career :deal

 

What is all this supposed to mean? It seems like a diversion, several paragraphs attacking James Toney and not one single time giving argument or discussing what I brought up... Who cares about Toney's steroids habits and those decisions against the likes of Tiberi and Johnson? For your information, that same Johnson beat Steve Collins as well... The thing was that Mike Mccallum beat Steve Collins in a great fight in Boston and what does that tell us ( 118-110, 117-110, somethinglikethat)? Mike McCallum was a better fighter than Collins at the time but still he lost to Toney... And Steve Collins was a better fighter than Calzaghe period. If James Toney lost to RJJ, then I feel it's fair to say that Calzaghe would have lost to RJJ if they had fought back then... The Hopkins situation is another problem because you could never know what may had happened if Nard would have stepped up to 168 pounds back then but we know that Hopkins beat Keith Holmes at 160 and Holmes beat Woodhall at 168 and Richie who gave all sort of problems to Calzaghe... What I meant to say is that the level of opposition Nard-James-Roy faced was vastly superior to Joe's exception made to Joe's last five or six fights. Forget about Toney's career as a LHW, a CW or even as a HW. Griffin, Jirov and ****.

 

just pointing out that you and several other posters on here try and make out how great the likes of toney was, when the truth is that even when toney was in his prime, he was scraping life and death split decisions with dave tiberi, sosa, johnson, drawing with sanderline williams, and losing to thadzi and midget griffin.

past peak mccallum v toney are very debatable decisions for starters. you think steve collins is a better fighter than joe calzaghe period - the fundamental point of your argument is based on a bull**** opinion of which there is no proof of at all. it totally flaws your argument.

again your argument totally based on presumption.

we'll never know because hopkins ducked fighting calzaghe in america for a career high pay day in 2002. what can we do if hopkins prefered much lower pay days for easier fights. btw i was at the woodhall v calzaghe fight supporting woodhall but your whole 'fighter A, beat fighter B, so would give fighter C trouble' is complete bull****, we all know styles make fights. froch beat taylor and pascal at the 1st time of asking, does that make froch a better fighter than hopkins?

as said before, the following is a list of fighters that jones, hopkins, and toney fought

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surely joe couldn't have matched these household monsters roy jones was fighting in america


Fermin Chirino

Danny Garcia

Antoine Bird

Vinny Pazienza

Tony Thornton

Eric Lucas

Bryant Brannon

Lou Del Valle

Otis Grant

Richard Frazier

David Telesco

Richard Hall

Derek Harmon

Glen Kelly

Prince Badi Ajamu

Anthony hamshaw






lets not pretend calzaghe could have coped with this lot


robert allan x3

the irrepressible hakar

joppy

echolls

ornelas

carl daniels

howard eastman

vanderpool

simon brown

andrew council

william bo james

joe lipsey

steve frank






lets not pretend that calzaghe could have coped with the ferocity of opponent that james toney mixed with during his 168 championship reign


- govoner chavers

- ricky thomas

- glen thomas

- danny garcia

- larry prather

- tony thornton

- anthony hembrick

- tim littles

- vinson durham

 

two words: Carl Froch

 

Whats he got to do with Calzaghe?
froch wasnt even recognised at SMW when Calzaghe was fighting at LHW.
Still Froch wasnt as keen on fighting Calzaghe as you think.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/sunsport_columnists/article2395099.ece
Froch didnt fancy it back then.

 

Only in regards to a Hopkins rematch. B-Hop schooled him once and he knew better than to get back in the ring with him.

 

carl froch and amir khan are an example to every single fighter is the sport of boxing today