Roy Jones Jnr: Does he deserve to be an ATG on achievement?

It's a good thing Roy was beaten by Tarver. No single loss, no matter how brutal and no matter who happens to be the opponent, should be able to drop you from "Greatest of all time," to whatever he is now. If that loss was all it took to stop that talk than thank God it happened so we weren't deceived into buying it.

 

There are certainly some strange calls.

I find Marcel Cerdan as the number three middleweight interesting. Is there any support for such a high rating on this forum, does he really deserve to be in the mix with the likes of Monzon, Greb and Hagler.

Strange as some of the rankings seem, it is good to see some underlooked fighters get some credit. I think most of the fighters listed are at least great fighters who deserve some mention even if their seems some glaring ommissions and strange orders.

I think they are good lists from a writer (and i dont know who did them) who has obviously only studied various tunnels of history and hasnt had the advantage of the internet age of education.

 

If Roy had retired after Ruiz or Tarver I, he'd be widely argued for as the P4P GOAT. What hurts his standing so badly was subsequently getting punched out four times in a way SRR never was. But yeah, for a former MW Champion to cleanly decision a multiple reign HW title claimant the caliber of Ruiz does set him apart from much of the pack. It was thought there would never again be a heavyweight title holder under 200 pounds after the Spinks brothers. Just seven months after Jones-Ruiz, Toney tailed Roy into the HW ranks and stopped Holyfield.

 

ya that's an argument that usually comes up. Toney won a piece of the heavyweight title as well, and they try to discredit Jones win over Ruiz by this. But there's really nothing to discredit because James Toney was a very special fighter himself. He fought real well in his heavyweight fights.


James Toney and Roy Jones are very special fighters.


No matter what anyone says John Ruiz was a pretty good heavyweight and I think he deserves to be in the top 5 heavyweights of the 00's.

 

He's an ATG and has a talent level comparable to anyone in the top 10, but in terms of record he doesn't belong anywhere near that stage.

Top 25-40 or so.

 

My reaction to these two statements can be summed up in the following:

:?:shock::rofl:nono

Ruiz was complete ****. By all rights he should have been nothing more than a gatekeeper and fringe contender. The only reason the victory is even slightly impressive, (and that's how I view it, slightly impressive) is because it was a former middleweight doing it.

What the hell is impressive about a guy who consistently either lost to or squeaked by fringe contenders, loons, and ancient legends?

 

Probably because he consistently squeaked by against old Holyfield, Kirk Johnson, Rahman, Golota, Oquendo and actually has a good resume on paper. Look, I hated John Ruiz, we all did, but the guy kept pulling off victories, albeit boring as f*ck.

 

Can you name any other heavyweights besides Kiltschko Brother and Chris Byrd that rate over Ruiz? I know the division was poor, but not as poor as it is now.

My list would go

Wladimir
Lennox
Vitali
Byrd
Ruiz


This is according to resume, not ability of course...Not to cause any confusion this list is obviously just for the 2000's if it was overall Lennox would undoubtedly be in first.

 

I´d put Chagaev for sure and perhaps Ibragimov above Ruiz.

 

Chagaev, umm maybe. Ibragimov? Hells to the no. **** no.

 

You could also consider Brewster. He had a nice run for awhile himself with that ko streak and hung in there when he lost the title to Sergei.

 

**** wrong thread.

 

Ruiz was a Cockroach that just would not die. He just did whatever he would to keep his title, and get multiple, undeserved shots at the title. Don King was very good to certain fighters. Ruiz, Golota and certain others got shots they shouldn't have because of King.

Ruiz was a spoiler, and a C-Level fighter who used smarts and dirty tactics to escape with his title multiple times. He couldn't compete with top-level talent.

 

true, however baring the tua blowout, who looked as consistently good against him? the brilliance in jones' performance wasn't just winning, but winning with ease and avoiding the dirty, messy brawl ruiz was attempting to instigate

 

To be fair, Toney beat him just as bad as Jones did. Add to the fact it was fat Toney, and this is not a great feat.