Foster couldn't cut it at the top level as a heavyweight, he found it impossible to put on meaningful weight, he was a 175 lbs Sandy Saddler and, at 175 lbs, he just might be the best puncher ever, the guy was a monster light heavyweight puncher, but his physique could not handle the 200lbs plus big boys of his times. He is a top 5 175 pounder for me. Fitz was well named as the Freckled Freak, he put away men clinically, and ,a couple of times permanently.
Frazier should win. He would bust up, crowd, combination punch Fitz out of any semblance of rythym or positioning. But I don't think it's a stupid to say that he has a chance. Any trapsmith who hits that hard is never out of it versus anybody with a chin of anything other than granite.
I love the old time fighters as much as anyone but I'm somewhat surprised at the number of posts that seem to favor Bob against Frazier...And the the dismissal of Bob Foster. I think it's fair to say that the heavyweight sea that Fitz sailed in wasn't as deep as the one Foster tried to navigate. Trying to move up to the HW division and defeat two of the greatest HW's two ever have laced em up is a rather tall order for any lightheavy weight champion and it shouldn't be held against Foster. As a LHW he was nearly unbeatable and that's all that matters. As for Fitzsimmons no one can deny his place among the all time greats. But I think we're stretching it a bit to suggest that he can defeat a modern great like Joe Frazier. Corbett was kicking his ass before Fitz lowered the boom...Frazier would've handed him his head courtesy of a few vicious left hooks. Fraziers era produced some of the greatest HW's of all time...As good as Fitz was I just don't see him faring well against them. Too much size and ability.
Some people do suggest he stepped in the ring weighing above 170lbs, yes. Although no one really knows, and i doubt it was his best weight anyway. By the way, on the Fitz appreciation thread, there is a picture of Fitzsimmons in his coat, with his weight listed at 200lbs (towards the very end of his career). He actually carries it very, very well and to be honest, doesnt look anywhere near as bloated as most of todays heavyweights. When did he exhibit the ability to deal with sustained pressure? When he came back to KO CHoynski, maybe. When he KOd Sharkey, twice (who by the way was very similar to Frazier although admittedly smaller and probably not as good), When he KOd Maher twice, when he KOd Corbett (who while different in style clearly applied sustained pressure on Fitz and hit him with great power and precision constantly).
If Foster's failures were just Ali and Frazier no one would hold it against him. But there was more than just those two.
He weighed 202 on his tour with Jim Jeffries. It was not an actual fight, but he didn't look out of shape either.
Dave, how many of amateurs can you find who look better than Bob Foster? Does anyone have any clips of Foster vs Wusaja or Hamilton, so that we can do a fair comparison of Foster and Fitz? I havent seen these fights but i am confident that Fitz would look the better of the two on film. Actually, i might try and find Frazier vs Cummins. I just looked at a few quick clips. I dont think he looked his draw shows anything to suggest that he would have KOd Ruhlin and Sharkey, like Fitz did at the same age (anyone disagree?). And if you go three years earlier to the only other filmed fight we have comparisons of at relevant stages of their careers, i dare say that Fitz was a little more impressive in KO ing the world champion than Frazier was in getting outclassed by Foreman, wouldnt you?
From what i understand, it wasnt an actual fight but, it most nights were quite a bit more than glorified sparring sessions also. And i also believe that Fitz got the better on more than one occassion.
And there it is. It's absurd (given the era gap) picking Fitz to knock this one out and knock that one out. Ridiculous. As you say elsewhere about Greb, we've got some good latter film of the guys he used to clean up, and they ain't bad.
Before i took a break i'd found a great article (chased it readying for a debate with DUO) on Foster, included a few things about a heavyweight fight or two that made it all look a lil less bleak. Hopefully i can find it again soon. A real gem.
Not just sustained pressure but sustained, clinical pressure by an ATG swarmer. None of the guys listed fit this description. The real question is... how would Fitz keep Frazier off of him? While he admittedly had huge power at LHW do you see him being able to hurt Joe, a bona fide HW, on any level. I don't and this is the key to this matchup in my opinion.
Yeah, I respect all eras but I have a hard time picking these small turn of the century guys over guys like Frazier... guys we have plenty of quality film of... guys we have complete information about... guys who beat other guys their own size who were also top level. It gets old and boring. I know this site is the "Classic" forum but damn. The 90's is classic now people. I'm 36 1/2 and my 20 year Highschool reunion is next year... I graduated in 1992. Do we really need to go back that far to be considered classic? It's not that I don't know much about Bob Fitzsimmons because I do... I know a ton, but with only poor film quality and newspaper clippings to judge the man on I feel like most of what's being said about the man is made up.
Not putting Joe Louis down because I think he was one of the best fighters ever... but I've heard people refer to his fights with guys like Primo Carnera, Abe Simon, and Buddy Baer as some kind of example of how he would do vs. the likes of Bowe, Lewis, and V. and W. Klitschko. That's just insane.