if liston had beat clay.....

Depends whether the fight proves to be a wake up call for him.

If he carries on as he was going, then sombody will get round to beating him.

 

Duran deserves a mention as does Fitzsimmons

 

:huh

 

:yep

 

If the young Cassius Clay had given a good losing performance,then he would probably got a rematch against Liston and won it.

 

Either till Frazier came along, or a worldwide shortage of that blinding liniment occurred.

 

I can't see anything further than a Clay rematch mid-65, when Liston's reign ends (after a KO win between vs Doug Jones or Eddie Machen).

 

I think this is loose talk based on very little. The two losses to Ali was the only losses Liston suffered during a period of 15 years. Having very little to fight for he still went unbeaten for almost another 5 years after Ali II, and impressed Wepener with his strength, power and jab in his very last fight.

The only thing suggesting that Liston was on a sharp downslide was how easily Clay handled him. But that could just have had something to with Clay. Shall we at least consider that?:smoke

To answer the question; you never know, but I see no one else for the remainder of the 60's being able to take him. Terrell would last the distance before losing a stinker (that perhaps would be a bit disputed nowadays), Quarrry would give a good go but lose on cuts, Bonavena would be on the end of that jab for most of the time and wouldn't be able to bully Liston on the inside, and Frazier would stay away until Liston was retired or sufficiantly shot to be there for the taking. Either way, Joe becomes the next undisputed champion around the time he did in real life.

That is, if we take Ali out of the equation (which wasn't the question, I know).

 

Either Ali wins a return match, or (if he's out of the picture) Terrell becomes lineal champion.

 

Not sure Liston continued to win after, maybe he makes it to frazier maybe he loses a rematch to ali

 

Liston was beter than the rest but had become complacent through lack of real opposition. Liston had not had a real competative fight since 1960, by 1964-65 sonny was always going to lose against the next guy who could take him past 5 rounds.

Think about it. Liston had 4 one sided rounds of action against unrated foes in 1961, one round of "action" in 1962 and all of one round of action again for all of 1963.

Against clay he gassed out after 3 or 4 rounds. doug jones, terrel, machen were all good enough to take him into deep water around the same time. Peak liston would beat them all but hed gone soft.

In his comeback, by the time sonny fought henry clark he had re seasoned himself and was capable again but 1964 and 65 were always going to be bad years against a capable chalenger.

 

Machen had the formula to beat Liston and was not afraid of him.

He might of slipped in here and won a split decision if given a shot.

But it was 15 rds. back in those days....not like today when you can win 6 rds, draw one, and get a close decision.

 

Machen said he got the same Liston liniment (blinding) treatment as Clay did. Was holding hos own till then.

Dundee has said that Liston may be overrated.

 

Laughable analysis. He didn't between 1965-1970, so why should he when younger and much more to fight for? Nonsense.