My thoughts on the career of JMM

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Aug 9, 2011.

  1. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I never claimed he was avoided. I said it's a shame he didn't get the big fights.

    I'm not a mexican nor am I a marquez fan. If you read my rbr you should see objective scoring and I have no idea how it can be scored for norwood.

    Do you have sources for him turning down these fights?
     
  2. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    just in the interest of fairness I sat down and rewatched the mab-jmm fight and what a fight it is, so much back and forth. brilliant fight really was.

    in reality i have jmm winning by 1 point, but due to the kd/foul incident it looks a lot wider.

    mab-jmm
    1: 10-9 - very close round but i think mab did the better work and looked more in control
    2: 10-9 - good round by mab using his jab effectively and mixing up some nice combos. good finish by jmm.
    3: 9-10 - another close round, mab was strong enough to meet jmm punch for punch but came off worse in the exchanges especially towards the end of the round
    4: 9-10 - good work by marquez who opened up more and landed some nice shots with a good display of ring generalship and effective aggression.
    5: 9-10 - good display of accuracy and aggression by marquez in this round, brilliant jabbing by mab at the close but not enough.
    6: 9-10 - great back and forth round with slightly more "forth" coming from jmm.
    7: 8-10 - easily a jmm round until the knockdown which wasn't called. but mab hit jmm whilst down so he loses a point.
    8: 10-9 - brilliant round with exchanges from both men but mab finished stronger.
    9: 9-10 - great display of clean effective punching by jmm in this round, catching mab clean even on the back foot.
    10: 9-10 - brilliant all round display of ring generalship, effective aggresion and clean effective punching by jmm in this round.
    11: 9-10 - not much of note happened in this round but marquez landed the better shots.
    12: 10-9 - good jabbing displayed by mab in this round and he was willing to stand and trade when jmm cut him off.

    111-116 * with the kd in the 7th it would be 113-114
     
  3. 1971791

    1971791 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I don't buy this at all. 10-8 to Márquez, the correct score (excluding the bad call). However, if the KD was given to Barrera, it would surely have been a 9-9 round because Márquez was winning clearly and it was more of a flash knockdown. However, Barrera would have still got the penalty for hitting Márquez when he was down (because he would have thrown it anyway), so it would have been a 9-8 round to Márquez if the KD had been scored. So it's actually a one-point swing in my opinion, not the three point swing that the commentators and you think that it would have been.
     
  4. Capitan

    Capitan Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You must really have a lot of time on your hands...but JMM is one of the best and still has gas in the tank for a Pacquiao beatdown!!!
     
  5. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    i'm a teacher meaning until august 31st I have nothing but time :good
     
  6. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    just reading that paragraph highlights how complicated and subjective even scoring a kd is.

    to keep it simple i put automatic 10-8 for the kd and assume the ref starts counting hence mab returns to a neutral corner, that's how it should have happened. but due to ref incompetence, jmm clearly won the round, no kd was scored and mab lost a point for a foul.
     
  7. 1971791

    1971791 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Gi55n0a4kk&feature=related[/ame]

    From about 4:50. The referee was a bit poor here, but he came in from a distance, but was basically there and Barrera waited and then hit him again! If he had thought that he had got a KD, he shouldn't have punched him anyway. Well, he shouldn't have punches him, regardless.

    Actually, looking at the real-time version a bit earlier, the referee is rushing in so it's a bit lazy to blame him. Maybe his positioning was a bit off. Surely the ref would have done the same thing (tell Barrera to go to the neutral corner) even if it had been a KD in his mind, even before counting?
     
  8. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    looking at mab, there was hesitation and confusion, just watching the fight I imagine his inner monologue ran "getting my arse kicked, yes he's down, wait no count from the ref, no instructions, carry on attacking till told otherwise"
     
  9. 1971791

    1971791 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I don't see it that way, you can't count from the other side of the ring. Nor should he have hit Márquez when he was down.

    I mean, it is possible that he could have been thinking that, but you can't really be lenient because of his 'inner monologue'.
     
  10. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    i'm not lenient, i scored it 10-8 jmm.

    what i do think is if the ref would have immeditaely started the count the foul wouldn't have happened and the round would be 10-8 mab.

    the second paragraph is of course just speculation, as i said, i scored it 10-8 jmm.
     
  11. 1971791

    1971791 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Can he start the count from his original position though? I don't think that a KD in the last five seconds of the round would be enough to steal a round that had already been lost either, but that's your opinion.
     
  12. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    That's his job, if he's in the wrong position it's again bad reffing.

    Yeah I have my faults, for instance I haven't scored an even round since the first fight I ever scored (leonard - hagler). Maybe the kd isn't always enough to win a round automatically, maybe there is just cause in certain cases but by and large a kd is 10-8. As I say, I like to keep it simple.
     
  13. horst

    horst Guest

    I woke up this morning having had a nightmare that someone in here yesterday said they rank Juan Manuel Marquez higher than Alexis Arguello. Scary stuff.
     
  14. KO-KING

    KO-KING Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    same level as MAB and morales
     
  15. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Was it worse than the nightmare you had when I put calzaghe above morales haha