Foreman V Frazier: Can you really say he George had joes Number

I think with the extra second of timing joe had before TFOTC would have made a big diffrence against a fighter like foreman who was still quite raw. Foreman and Frazier met when one was still a bit raw and the other just over the top of his peak powers. Frazier would have needed his best night to get past george but he had already had all of his "best nights" by then. Frazier could always fight but that extra second meant he missed that bit more and got caught that bit more. A good 65% of Fraziers defence was down to how accurate he was with his own punches. He could not afford to miss like he did with George.

 

No,because he never had the chin to absorb Foreman's punches.

 

It seems like some on here are not reading some valid points. Frazier of Foreman 1 was
not giving George a chance and was more interested in his band. Frazier of Foreman 2
was way out of shape and damaged by all the ring wars, including Manilla. A motivated, in shape, speedy Frazier of say '70 or '71 and this fight might of had a different outcome.

 

Yes Virginia...George Foreman just plain had Joe Frazier's number.

 

1969-1971 Frazier plus a referee that permits absolutely no shoving has a chance. :think Not a good one, though. :bart

 

1. Cus died in '85, & Foreman didn't comeback until '87, so when Cus talked about the danger of Foreman, he was refering to Prime Foreman... i don't think anyone would've imagined George was ever going to comeback.

2. Read this...

In December promoter Don King offered Foreman $5 million to fight Tyson sometime in 1990. "He gave me a contract and told me to sign on the dotted line," says Foreman, who rejected the offer. "I was more afraid of Don King and the dotted line than I am of Tyson."

Source: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1123095/2/index.htm

 

Yes,and we've heard all the excuses before.Considering Frazier had attempted to avoid the fight and was only forced - kicking and screaming - into it,I do find it a little far-fetched that Frazier wouldn't consider Foreman a threat in the slightest.


There was one thing that prevented Frazier from ever beating or even competing with Foreman,and that was his inability to absorb the punch from a true puncher.

 

Absurd. Frazier's manager didn't want him to fight Foreman. Frazier insisted. Joe saw Foreman as NO threat. Frazier was taking his time to rematch Ali. In the meantime,
Joe played with his band. Jo got a rude awakening against Foreman.

 

Are you quoting Frazier word-for-word from his book here? It took the threat of his title being stripped away from him for Frazier to fight Foreman.It was a move forced upon him by the WBC,and unless he wished to lose face and atleast a half of his title,he had to fight Foreman.


And yes,Frazier was taking his time to rematch Ali - another fight that he didn't want.

 

A fighter not being able to admit that he met his match when he got brutally KO'd...absolutely no basis for an argument that Frazier could have done any better.

Foreman was all wrong for Frazier, any version of Frazier, any point in his career. Frazier needed to take one to land one and that strategy doesn't work with Foreman. To beat young Foreman, one would either outbox him from the outside, have a McCall - level chin or some rare gameplan like Ali and the circumstances where that could work.

 

I've said enough about this matchup in previous threads, but I'll say it again.

FOTC conditioned Frazier IMO would be a much tougher task for George to KO. I don't think anyone beats FOTC Joe Frazier. Maybe a prime Joe Louis, a prime Larry Holmes, maybe the 80's Tyson during his first title reign. Still, it would be hard to convince me that anyone could KO FOTC Joe Frazier. I think Joe has a very good chance of taking George into the later rounds and stopping him due to fatigue. Foreman wasn't an endurance type heavyweight. His best rounds are early and the only thing to do is move, counter and survive the storm. Joe did this well against Machen, Chuvalo and Quarry. Foreman's power diminishes as the fight goes on. Later in his career, George learned to pace himself better, giving up a few of the early rounds, setting up with the jab and measuring the right hand. He paced himself much better in the 76 Uniondale rematch. He paced himself again in his victory over Michael Moorer. Younger George would have tried to blast out Moorer and would likely tire if he didn't. Practically everyone in Frazier's camp before the Jamaica title defense believed Foreman wasn't a threat to his title. The only exception is Futch, who apparently saw too much partying and the fact that Norton was getting the better Joe in the sparring sessions. Still, Eddie believed George didn't have the speed or skill to be a threat to Joe. Even Ken said Frazier lost his drive and quickness which could be attibuted to Ali's greatness.
Everyone knows they were wrong in their assessment of Foreman because his speed is deceptive. Foreman may look slow on foot but he covers a lot of ring territory cutting of the opponent with his long strides.

Frazier won the FOTC but he gave almost everything he had against Ali to beat him convincingly. If Joe showed Foreman an ounce of the respect and anger he had against Ali, he might have held on to the title to rematch Ali and Zaire would have never happened. People keep saying George beats Joe every time, but what's forgotten is Joe got up every time and Mercante was doing his job almost to the worst of his abilities as a ref. George did a lot of pushing, shoving and wrestling in the fight and Mercante did nothing to stop him. FOTC Frazier was faster and he showed a lot more head movement. Watching the replay of the 73 fights shows me that Frazier was timing himself into George's big shots, walking straight at him with his hands lower.

 

Based on the results, yes, we can say that.

Painting a different picture for a fight between the two is so deeply in the realm of speculation that a dissenter could fairly call it wishful thinking.

 

Yes, this has been discussed before. Round15 is right on the mark.