Machen - Liston foreshadowed Sonny's Weaknesses ..

Then why did he not state for the record that Liston deliberately tried to blind him? Why didn't Dundee? According to you they would have been perfectly safe in doing so, correct?

And if it was safe for Machen to come out years later and claim that Liston tried to blind him then wouldn't it also be safe enough for him to say that the reason he didn't say anything about it at the time was because he was afraid of Sonny's mob connections? I haven't seen the exact interview, but in it does he claim that that was the reason for his silence?

 

Everything you have said is so full of crap.

Basically it can be summarized:
"I can not believe something could have happened until my brain can comprehend why it happened."

Epic fail, epic lunacy. And all meaningless.

 

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surf-bat, ali said he knew who the guy was in liston's corner who blinded him. this is from an interview with ali on tv in the 1970s. i personally think it was from the solution they used on liston's cuts at the end of round 3. in round 4 the solution got into ali's eyes.

 

I dont think clay was taken seriously enough yet for anyone to link the machen fight with what young clay had to offer. I imagine Old timers thought clay was a braggart who had not really paid his dues yet. So far clay had only beat cooper and old moore. The lavorante win was ok but this after Moore had already knocked him out. The jones and cooper fights were kind of tough for a "cant miss" champion in the making. Clay turned out to be a worthy winner against Liston but I think it would have been hard to predict that upset beforehand. Angelo Dundee had seen a lot of Liston in miami and realy thought he had the fighter to beat him, he thought Liston was over rated because of the two floyd wins.

 

It's a shame Liston-Folley isn't on film, probably his best performance, vs a boxer arguably better than Machen

 

Do you have this interview or happen to know where it is? I haven't seen it and to the best of my knowledge it was Jack McKinney who opened this can of worms in 1994 when he was interviewed for the Liston documentary.

If what you say is true and Ali did indeed claim this a decade later then, as with Machen, it is odd that this comes at that time rather than anywhere near the time when said incident allegedly occurred.

Going just from memory, the men in Sonny's corner that night were Joe Polino (whom McKinney fingered as the "culprit"), Willie Reddish and Milt Bailey. Ali would have had to be pointing the finger at one of those guys.

 

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for surf-bat, check from 1.55 mins (1974)
[yt]WnqLn0R1Rq4[/yt]

 

Thanks for sending this. Appreciate it. But again, I am suspicious of any heresay that suddenly emerges years after the fact. There is just so little to support this. If this were such an effective tactic and one Joe Polino (who Ali is referring to) used then what Liston fights can be pointed to as examples of this? Because the Clay fight is the only one I know of where it can be clearly seen that something was in a Liston opponent's eyes.

 

Good point. Ali literally went from boy to man in those Liston fights. Just look at his body. He looks far more developed and grown up. It's kind of like seeing the difference in Ortiz from Maidana to Berto. He looks a lot stronger, bigger, and more matured. I think this is the case with Ali too.

In hindsight, I think Peralta-Foreman looked far worse for Foreman-Ali than Liston-Machen does. Not to derail the thread.