Does Ezzard Charles have the best list of scalps of any fighter?

we're talking about scalps though. Were all Ezzard's and Greb's in perfect conditions, fighting under perfect circumstances?(a genuine question, i dont myself)

And i dont believe half the guys listed for Greb were better fighters than any of Ali's scalps i listed

 

Most of the top names on Charles' resume were beaten multiple times. Chances are they were in pretty good condition on at least one of those occasions. It was also just as likely that Ezzard himself wasn't at his best for their match ups. It's going to happen when you fight every other week.

As for Ali, the crazy thing about his resume is that he had one division to work with. It's only natural that Greb and Charles would build up more impressive resumes when they were tearing through the best of 3 divisions. I guess you could make the argument that Ali's era gets a bit overrated at times, its probably true, but I have little doubt that his is the most impressive single-division resume in the history of the sport. How many other guys can say they have wins over 3 of the 10 greatest fighters in the history of their division? It's astounding, really.

 

Charles was amazing!
He beat-

Joe Louis

Jersey Joe Walcott 2 out of 4, many felt he should have won 3 out of 4 though

Archie Moore x3, stopped him once

Jimmy Bivins 4 out of 5, stopped him once

Lloyd Marshall 2 out of 3, stopped him twice

Charley Burley x2

Joey Maxim x5... not 4, 5!!!

Elmer Ray 1 out of 2, stopped him... the loss was very close

Rex Layne 2 out of 3, stopped him once

Other good fighters he beat-

Teddy Yarosz, Anton Christofordis, Jose Basora, Oakland Billy Smith x2, Fitzie Fitzpatrick x2, Sam Baroudi, Joe Baksi, Gus Lesnevich, Pat Valentino, Freddie Beshore, Nick Barone, Lee Oma, Bernie Reynolds, Cesar Brion, Coley Wallace, Bob Satterfield, John Holman 1 out of 2, and several others.

Early in his career (before he peaked), he lost and drew with Ken Overlin and lost by SD to Kid Tunero.

Late in his career he lost very close decisions to Nino Valders and Harold Johnson.

Even his first loss to Rocky Marciano was rather close... it was his 98th pro fight. In the rematch Charles gave him hell and split Marciano's nose before being stopped in the 8th.

I have him top 5 P4P.

 

good post... who are these 3 fighters btw? Foreman, Frazier 2 out of 3, and Liston x2? 2 wins over Patterson is pretty impressive as well. I think his win over Zora Folley is underrated btw.

 

Yeah, those 3. you could argue that Liston isn't top 10, but I think he belongs. Throw in the Patterson wins, and Ali's record against top 20 Heavyweights of all time is 7-2, and 9-3 for top 25 if Norton gets in. The list of top level contenders he beat is also spectacular. As you mention, there's Folley, and the likes of Quarry 2x, Lyle, Young, Chuvalo 2x, Terrell, Shavers, Ellis, Bonavena, Mathis, Spinks, Williams, Foster, etc. It's because of that that I firmly believe Joe Louis has absolutely no case to rate above him, though that's going off topic.

Ali's resume isn't the best the sport's ever seen, but it's high up there, and as I said, it was all amassed in a single division. Crazy.

 

good thread and i think it really is between charles and greb if we look at it in terms of names. the only other person is langford (as noted by lufcrazy) and if you include "wins" over walcott and ketchel, then he has wins over one of the best lightweights (gans), welters (walcott), middles (ketchel), light heavies (philly jack) and beat most of the best heavies of his day as well.

right below that tier is the ali-robinson tier

edit: i forgot an almost blind langford knocked out flowers in the 2nd round..i believe in Georgia!

 

EL B, Ezzard Charles was fantastic in the great fighters he beat. No doubt.
But we must be cognizant of the fact that Harry Greb beat all the above great fighters while usually spotting them 10-25 pounds,and having about 178 more bouts than Ezzard Charles. And spotting many of them one eye !
Ezzard Charles was a great lightheavyweight and a great gentleman,in and out of the ring...:hi:

 

Prime Bivens was just as good as Charles. The problem with Biven is that once he declined after 1945, he fell fast and hard.

I'd better state that Bivens was just as good as Charles was at LH, not HW. Bivens beat Moore, Burley, Lesnevich , Bettina, Pastor, Savold, Maxim, Marshall, Lee Q. Murray, etc. It's a shame he never challenged for the LH title.

 

You bring Soldier Eff-ing Bartfield into a greatest scalps debate -- a guy with 74 losses -- and question other peoples' scalps?

 

...just for the record, ezzard beat maxim five times, not four.

in his light heavy days he usually gave away weight when he was beating tough heavies...

with remarkable fighters like charles and greb it's virtually impossible to state which one has the best resume against top opposition...both are outstanding in this respect...

 

What?

 

Sam Langford:

Joe Jeanette
Joe Gans
Stanley Ketchel(if you count it)
Tiger Flowers
Gunboat Smith
Harry Wills
Sam McVey
Jack Blackburn
Young Peter Jackson
Kid Norfolk
Jeff Clark
Barbados Joe Walcott(Dubious draw)

Amongst many other credible contenders like Jim Flynn, Dan Flynn, Bill Tate, Jim Johnson etc.

He beat a lot of them a lot more than once as well.