You'd have to compare Pac's performance against Margo with Pac's previous performances to see if he has declined, not Floyd's. I think an earlier version of Pac would've been able to stop a Margarito-caliber type fighter. Or at the very least drop him several times. He just isn't as powerful as he used to be at these higher weights and also his handspeed is slower even in a p4p sense. All this bulking up Ariza has done has helped Pac handle WWs but at the same time it's taken something away from him.
I've noticed his speed decline since his move to Welter, but it's not really a drastic decline...so you could say he is declining, but it is a very, very slow decline. I don't believe any version of Pacquiao was stopping Margarito that night IMO. He's not going to be as powerful at the higher weights, but I thought he looked to have been punching a lot harder against Margarito, than he was against say Cotto.
has nearly 60 fights, many of them brutal wars. Turned pro at 16 years old. Fighting 8 weightclasses above his pro debut. Full-time politician and part-time boxer. yea I'd say it's normal to see a steady decline. A Margarito type fighter at 122 or 126 would've gotten pulverized by Pac.
Floyd has declined, look at the floyd of the gatti fights, the reflexes, the speed the way he moves his legs, to the floyd that fought hatton, marquez and mosley. A huge difference. Floyd at 140 was a sight to behold.
When I said 'moving', I meant simply moving around the ring more, not that his footwork was necessarily more effective or better. He just moved more in those fights. I think he was actually more economical and effective against Marquez and Shane -- no wasted movement, only moving when he had to, but otherwise slipping, parrying, etc from mid-range. He looked sharp and agile. I was just pointing out that he's gradually moving around the ring less than he used to...whether this is a good or bad thing is another story.
most people dont realize this. look at all the greats. rjj has a similar style as pbf relying on speed and reflexes. started to look bad the first tarver fight...when he was 34.
I have not heard any experts say that he's declined. He might at some point show his age, but he certainly hasn't shown it yet. He keeps himself pretty fresh by retiring and then coming back.
Yeah, won almost every round and scored a pretty crunching knock down of an iron chinned fighter. That's what passes for a bad performance by Manny. But I'll admit he wasn't at his sharpest. Just shows how good he is.
I think it's because most people on this board are younger than 30 so they are simply ignorant of the situation. I just turned 35 and i know that i've lost a ton of my explosion in my legs and the bounce in my step that i had even when i was around 30. There's no way around it. I used to be able to explode by guys on basketball but now i can't. I've lost a lot of my vertical, etc.
I'm not saying age is never going to catch up to him, but based on his last couple of performances I have not seen any decline in him. Just because he didn't move a lot fighting Mosley means nothing, he this dude down every round, and showed us that he does not have to move to win a fight.
you're kidding, right?? atsch:rofl They're styles with speed and reflexes are used completely different... floyd uses near perfect fundamental boxing skills as compared to jones who didn't... that's why as jones aged and his speed/reflexed slowed down, he's gottten beaten pretty badly because he never developed his fundamental techniques.
You're right. But it still doesn't change the fact that Floyd relies heavily on his natural reflexes to get the job done. And when that goes, he will be far less effective, especially on defense where so much of it is based on his cat like reflexes. Not to mention, his legs slowing down will also affect his defense.
Being economical and using less movement for defense is actually textbook. Neither Joe Louis or Charley Burley moved much. It's the guys who move around lots such as Ali that are unorthodox with the defense.