archie moore vs roy jones jr lightheavy....

based on styles, based on skills i think there is a very strong probability jones wins. "lesser" fighters beat greater fighters based on these factors all the time. otherwise every fantasy fight thread could be solved by "well, who has a better resume and rates higher pound for pound?-ok, that guy wins" would make for some pretty dull threads imo

 

Harold Johnson aside Jones LHW competition isn't much worse than Moore's opposition. Most of Moore's better opponents were really SMWs. I've seen video of the supposedly great Bivins and he certainly doesn't look it on film, long arms though

People who call Jones opposition tomato cans, really doesn't know anything about his opposition, he beat over 20 champions and beat countless Ring ranked opponents. He beat plenty of opponents that were better than Eubank

And if you don't understand 'styles make fights', you don't have a clue about the sport

 

i think virgil hill, reggie johnson, griffin, tarver and woods are a pretty decent list of light heavy scalps. certainly the best available in an average 175 era

 

I watched every Roy Jones fight that was televised through out his entire career. I have been a fan of his for many years and I am simply calling it straight up ... LIke Virgil Hill before him Jones fought a weak group of light heavyweights, period. The two best, Tarver and Johnson, handed him his head. As I wrote earlier, between Toney and Ruiz he fought no one. Fighting alphabet champs and b.s. rated challengers mean crap. Anyone that tries to frame their arguments with that logic as underpinning belongs in politics...

 

Thank you for proving my argument .. his bet three light heavyweight victories ... an old Virgil Hill, Reggie Johnson and Griffin ... now that's embarrassing competition ... LOL ...

 

not embarrassing at all imo. not a golden age at 175 to be sure but decent and i think more than able to establish his skills at the weight. would he outclass moore the way he outclassed everyone else? surely not. but if he doesn't lose more than a couple of seconds in each of those fights in total, then we can say it's pretty indicative of the speed, athleticism and talent he had. those same skills would translate to the moore fight, even if he wasn't able to use them to the same effect. what i saw in those fights shows me he had the tools necessary to outspeed, potshot and avoid moore to a decision

 

But the fact is, another guy on the scene was cleaning out the lh division as well. Or better and a little earlier for a longer duration. He had what 24 straight title wins? So, that single accomplishment was not only matched, it was exceeded.

What other guy was paralleling Archie's career back then?

And how come the dq loss to a guy like Griffin is never factored into any equation? Anybody picking that 5'5" Griffin to beat Moore? And just how was such a short guy with zero punching power able to deal with that huge speed advantage Jones had anyway? Jones had every advantage possible except for corners in the fight. Griffin had to use his smarts in there to be effective. Who used more boxing smarts than Archie Moore?

 

You're full of **** He Grant, based on your statements you clearly don't have a clue about the era

Tarver and Johnson were not the best LHWs Jones faced, Jones completely dominated Gonzalez, Woods and Harding who beat Johnson and Tarver.

No just Reggie Johnson who many had beating Toney, Griffin who beat Toney twice, McCallum who many had beating Toney, Hill who is 1 of the longest reigning LHW champions in history, Del Valle who controversally lost to Hill, Gonzalez who would beat DM and Glen Johnson, Hall who was robbed against Darius, Grant who was a MW champ, Harding who had beat Tarver, Woods/Lucas who were future champs

But yea no one between Toney and Ruiz, your a pointless troll when it comes to Jones and most consider you the same when it comes to Marciano if I remember rightly (or wasthat Klompton?)

 

Reggie Johnson is very underrated, he was arguably unbeaten coming into that fight, took Toney to the wire.

Jones opposition would be remembered more fondly if he didn't beat them so easily. His level of dominance in the ring is just insane, barely losing a round for the first 14years of his career

Harding was a very good prospect too until he got injured, he thoroughly outboxed Tarver in their first fight

 

By cleaning out a division do you mean feigning injury to get an ill deserved win, having hometown refs help you out and vacating belts to avoid mandatories and then having your promoter lie about the amount of time you were given to defend said belts in? Darius didn't want to fight Tarver or Harding either

The DQ loss isn't factored in because it was a BS call and Griffin faked it because he was about to be ko'd. Moore was outboxed plenty of times in his career and he was ko'd plenty of times too

 

bang on and can't argue that griffin had some surprising success. griffin was a B level fighter who, against two opponents (jones/toney), fought above his skill. this sort of goes to my point: griffin offered stylistic advantages and a canny strategy to offset jones. the gap in skill is FAR greater between jones and griffin than it is between jones and moore. and yet montell had some success (jones was taking the match over though and scored a legit knockdown before the DQ) based on using what he had. everything was remedied in the rematch though and griffin's level compared to jones was established

my point is that jones, despite between rated lower than moore at 175, could well poss stylistic problems by using his superior tools (speed, etc.) effectively.

however, if people want to look at wins-losses to establish a winner, let's throw out moore's early loses (which jones never suffered himself) and look at his prime where he lost to burley (jones' stylistic equivalent), bivins (who was not nearly as skilled as jones) and johnson (who was brilliant and admittedly fought NOTHING like jones). no shame in those loses but moore also lost to a series of fighters, sporatically, whose names are lost in record. some were brilliant, like holman williams, some were not like the 11-2-1 leonard morrow (KO 1) or the 42-10-1 henry hall (decision).

yes i used boxrec and that proves how useless the purely resume argument is. moore fought in a better period. he also lost MUCH more often in that better period to far lesser fighters. if you want to compare: a prime moore lost to leonard morrow (ended with 29-8-1) and post prime jones beat antonio tarver (still should place quite a bit higher than morrow all time). based on that selective comparison, jones is light years ahead of moore. but records and picking out selective loses is pretty deceiving at times

 

honestly, i'm not addressing the DM comparison. people can use DM to trash jones if they want, since they never fought it's hard to firmly establish who #1 was at the time. except for the fact that EVERYONE considered Jones number 1 at the time and he was cleaning up the division while DM was hiding from HBO's offer to fight jones. like eubank did, like collins did, like...

 

I think Darius would take the fight but only for 10million probably at the end of his career to cash out, Eubank turned the fight down a 2-3 times, Collins would take the fight for the right money - both wanted the fight but HBO prefered Reggie Johnson - then Collins got ko'd in sparring and ended his comeback

Here's both fighters interviews on the topic.
August 20, 1999
Man To Man: Jones vs. Michalczewski
By Francis Walker

After two years of talking and waiting, young fight writer Francis Walker attempts to bring the world's top-two light-heavyweights together. Hopefully, this Roy Jones ( 40-1, 33KOs) vs. Dariusz Michalczewski (40-0, 33KOs) piece will lead to a possible showdown between the in early 2000.

For those who followed the light-heavyweight novice of 175 pounds, Michalczewski's desire to fight Jones, the Undisputed World Light-Heavyweight Champion, has rapidly grown in Europe. While Michalczewski, the unrecognized World Boxing Organization titlist, continues to press the issue of meeting Jones, the "Pound-For-Pound" king has "bigger" plans....

FW: Again, congratulations upon becoming boxing's first Undisputed World Light-Heavyweight Champion in 14 years. As I've said three years ago.... World Championship unification is something that has eluded you. You could not leave the game without having that distinction. 175 pounds is a long way from 160.

Roy Jones: "It's all about opportunity you know? Sometimes when certain promoters have certain fighters you just can't make things happen. I'm just blessed to have caught all those fighters that had those other belts. With a good promoter in Cedric Kushner, Cedric enabled me to have the opportunity to fight these guys. You know if I get the opportunity to fight, you know I'm gonna do my thing."

FW: Regardless to what fans and writers said of your dedication to boxing through the years, I believe your victory against Reggie Johnson on June 5, solidified Roy Jones' place as an all-time, great.

Jones: "Right!"

FW: In Germany right now, there are two trash-talking light-heavyweights in Dariusz Michalczewski and Graciano Rocchigiani looking to pick a fight with you. What's that all about?

Jones: "They say they want a shot, but they are not really making an effort like they want it. Dariusz says this and says that. I told him: ' y'all give me $12 million and I'll go over there and beat Dariusz in Germany. I'll do it whenever they want it. however they want it; whenever they get ready. It does not take much to get Roy Jones to fight me."

FW: Not trying to be funny, but do you think you can beat both Michalczewski and Rocchigiani on the same night with one drink of water between bouts?

Jones: "More than likely I should be able to. With no problem. Michalczewaski would be harder. I would have to be in good shape. Rocchigiani just covers up. I can hit both of them at will. Michalczewski, I can hit him at will. No fighter alive can allow me to hit them at will and expect to do well. Rocchigiani, he just likes to cover-up and look for one shot hoping I punch myself out. That's not gonna happen."

FW: Another thing I would like to address is the situation with the sanctioning bodies. The WBC gave you between August and October to fight their interim champ in Rocchigiani. If not, you'd have to surrender the WBC title and $600,000?

Jones: "Not $600,000, but I would have to give up the title. I'm not gonna let anyone order me around. The fight against Rocky should be bad, because all Rocky does is cover-up! He really doesn't fight. You go over to Germany and they're going to rob. I'll be looking to do it, but over here in the United States."

FW: Another thing.... The WBA mandatory is interim champion, Richard Hall? I don't even know who he is.

Jones: "Right, how did he become interim champ? I know nothing about it. Like I told you before, I am very tired of the organizations and the sanctioning bodies. I'm not going to put up with it much longer. Either they let me do how I do it, or I'm just going to surrender the belts."

FW: The IBF has Antonio Tarver as their No. 1 man? Firstly, with him being a Don King fighter, I thought he was on the shelf. Second, who has a beat to earn a number one ranking?

Jones: "I don't know, I have no clue! How did the guy that just beat Frankie Liles get to be number one or a top-15 fighter?

FW: Is the sport crumbling?

Jones: "I know the sport is crumbling. I know the sport is crumbling, but it will comeback. Hopefully, the people like Senator McCain will step in, kicking in doors to try and find answers to why this stuff is going on. Somebody cares, somebody is trying to get something done about it. I hope it happens very soon."

FW: Is Don King the main culprit?

Jones: "It's not just one person, it's a group of people."

FW: It seemed as thought the sport was making a tremendous comeback, until the World Boxing Council ruled Ricky Frazier, a 40-year-old, New York City Police officer as their mandatory at 175.

Jones: "Lays down, doesn't fight!"

FW: That was nicest Roy Jones I saw since you won the WBC crown in November 1996 when you defeated Mike McCallum. Thanks always, and congratulations once again!

In addition: Jones has been talking about the possibility of fighting at heavyweight. Jones wants to move up to 188-190 to fight WBA/IBF champ, Evander Holyfield. Jones would do fairly well against Holyfield, providing "The Real Deal" does not have anymore fights left in him. Jones would also do well against small heavyweight from 5' 10" - 6' 2," 190-215 pounds. However, Jones does not have the firepower to keep Mike Tyson off of him for an entire 10-12 rounds without getting caught. Also, someone like Chris Byrd would be a dangerous fight for Jones because, 1) He's a southpaw. 2) Byrd is just as clever as Jones and 3) would be just as fast.

In order for Jones to compete as a heavyweight the risk must be worth the reward.

Jones talking about fighting Holyfield in '99, Holyfield would lose to Lewis though and he was just too big, Holyfield-Jones in '99 would have been interesting

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XP4B01Z9yk&feature=related"]

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Nice to just make stuff up ... A BS DQ call , right ... tell us more stories please ...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbdFtEzmWCM[/ame] go to 4:20

 

If he landed on Jones the shot he decked Marciano with the referee could count to 1000.