james toney...as a technical fighter is way OVER RATED

i like the new boxed ears. you have a very george lopez like approach

 

Actually yes, as a technician, he was.

He was a slickster, a pure one. He had a staple of counter-punching tricks that depends on shoulder angles and waist dipping, and used these, accompanied with a thudding body attack, for most of his attacks.

James Toney was a badass as a cutie, but as a technician, I'd agree. His comfort zone and skills were a bit too narrow.

 

I think that's a good comparison. Both prioritized being set and that could inhibited their ability to cut off the ring. Whether that's a technical or tactical flaw... that's another question.

 

What Randy Marsh does just "very good footwork" get then?

 

Well, that just didn't make any sense at ALL!

 

You can try and twist things in typical nutthugger fashion.

But Toney didnt had great footwork.

It was good and he had very good balance but he didnt had great footwork.

 

You're saying Randy doesn't have that subtletility of range? Shame on you.

 

Yeah, great footwork would be an exaggeration. Don't know who have said so, though.

I think I'll settle for "very good".

 

Rather James Toney is/was a master boxer or a one trick pony. He is one of the best head 2 head at 160 & 168. Whatever it is it works.

 

Just because he wasn't the best aggressor or didn't dance on his toes doesn't mean he hasn't had one of the most fundamentally sound and complete offensive and defensive abilities in the history of the sport.

 

Of course not, I'm just saying you should proofread your sentence.

 

Heres a post I did on Toney a while back


Here we go, done one on James Toney, its probably going to be pretty critical and I don’t want people to think I’m hating on Toney, he is an amazing fighter he just has a few glaring flaws that when not evident he looks like one of the best fighters ever.

Stance:
Toney has a pretty good stance. His footwork is held equally apart at all times which is good practise (but it also gets him into trouble at times), His right hand, contrary to what Gil Clancy says about it not protecting anything, is held stuck to his chin in a very good position. His left hand is dangling low. He stays quite square on with it, but I’ll go into more detail on his stance, in defence as he has a defensive stance.

Jab:
Toney’s jab is nothing special, it is underused and doesn’t bring anything amazing to his game. It is really just a tool to close the distance with; he throws it to cover himself as he steps inside. He has what I would call a ‘one phase jab’ though, as Jones Jr exploited when he doubled up the jab he only stepped forward with the jab once, then set his feet. This allowed Jones to escape as he kept moving back. Now if you watch Fighting Harada he stays light on his feet as he jabs, and that allows him to keep moving.

Offence:
Upon studying it further, Toney’s offence did impress me somewhat in the way he was so accurate with his shots. He throws lovely combinations at times but when he looks for power he throws one shot at a time. His combinations use the momentum of his body beautifully as he turns in that uppercut he uses the hips to come back round with a left hook, it is nice stuff.
The most impressive thing though is the way he adapts his shots mid-flight. He showcases this wonderfully against Doug DeWitt, at long-range Toney occasionally chucked out a jab that fell short so as he threw the right he lengthened it slightly catching DeWitt unaware. On the other side of that jab is, as Toney closes the distance behind his jab as he steps in he shortens that right hand as he throws it so it lands on the button.
Another effective thing is his long left hook, he often starts a long left hook to get his opponent to jack that right hand back to catch it, and as they do that Toney shortens that left hook so it lands in neater, inside their right hand. Really lovely stuff.
Also the way he throws the right uppercut comes from a blind spot down the middle of his opponents guard so it’s wonderfully effective.
Again the ‘one phase’ criticism rings true in this department also.

Defence:
Now Toney has that famous ‘shoulder roll’ defence but I feel it is slightly misconstrued. People say Toney tucks that left shoulder in front of his chin and then rolls with the shot, but it’s a slight variation of that. Toney tends to offer up his chin and as his opponent attacks he leans to the right and rolls his left shoulder across his chin offering protection, against slower opposition it is perfect but as Jones Jr exploited he was able to get a straight right hand in before the shoulder came across the chin.
Another thing about his ‘shoulder roll’ is that his only escape route appears to be his right hand side, he very rarely leans to his left. He works it well though as he tends to stay towards the opponents left hand side to minimise their left hook, but as Toney’s main escape route and instinct is to lean to his right when pressured, a left hook or left uppercut is the ultimate weapon to catch him, again as Jones Jr effectively blocked his escape route time and time again with the left hand.
And as that left hand threat is there even if the opponents left hand does not land cleanly, Toney’s right hand becomes ‘tied’ up as he has to block the left with his right, and this means he can’t come back with the right hand counter that this position leaves him set up to do.
Another major weakness is the way Toney sets his lead foot and back foot, he keeps them the same distance apart so in terms of static footwork it is the perfect position if he was boxing stand still, but boxing is dynamic. So when an opponent moves outside Toney’s left foot, because both feet are set he has to re-set his footwork to get round to them. The same is true if you move towards the outside of his right foot but you’d have to pass right through the danger zones of all his punches to do so, so it is much more risky.

 

no, he was one of the ATG technicians no doubt about it. i must say that he can be overrated slightly H2H & P4P but he was one of the best to ever lace them up. surely he's top 100? 125?

 

Sounds boring.