Jack Johnson v Ezzard Charles 15rds?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Aug 25, 2011.


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  1. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Johnson was a master of his day but I think Charles was skilled both defensively and offensively, This would not be an easy fight because Jack was crafty and also had the will to win,however I think fighter like Charles and Walcott are highly underrated and the era of the early 50's as well.....I like Charles by a close UD
     
    Bummy Davis, Aug 29, 2011
    Bummy Davis, Aug 29, 2011
    #76
  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    B D , I picked it because I thought it was an intruiging match up, divided opinion among posters seems to bear this out.:good
     
    mcvey, Aug 29, 2011
    mcvey, Aug 29, 2011
    #77
  3. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I'm confused on why the people who are picking Charles are doing so? Is this mostly based on the stance that Charles was the more technical fighter that would have the edge in speed and combinations? For me, I see this as a Jack Johnson KO or decision. The reasons being... Jack was the bigger and stronger fighter and I think Charles would "feel" those things in the ring. Against Stanley and Burns for example.. when he was the bigger fighter he used his size and weight advantage more than when he faced men his size or bigger. I think he would be the aggressive fighter in the ring and tax charles's defensive and just wear him down. I don't think Charles had the power to say it's likely he would put down Johnson, but Johnson had the better chance for the KO. Johnson was also better defensively than charles. Johnson would get into trouble if he was inactive like he was in some fights and just coasting. He could lose a MD if he fought that kinda fight. However, if we are going peak of each fighter and a lot on the line for each... I see Johnson stopping charles in brutal fashion
     
    KuRuPT, Aug 29, 2011
    KuRuPT, Aug 29, 2011
    #78
  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Ta-ta.
     
    Mendoza, Aug 29, 2011
    Mendoza, Aug 29, 2011
    #79
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    McGrain, Aug 30, 2011
    McGrain, Aug 30, 2011
    #80
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    You really arent the full shilling are you?
    McGrain blew your weight equates to fitness argument totally out of the water .
    I provided you with a classic example in Max Baer and his fights with Carnera and, Braddock,you just ignore what you cannot refute, you and reality are total strangers.

    Matt posted the newpaper report on here over a year ago ,you ignored it ,he then said it was pointless debating further with you.

    You are the one saying Jim Johnson was fat , it is for you to produce photographic evidence confirming this , not for me to show he was not ,[which I actually have any way].
    You are about as rational and, in touch with reality as Gadaffi.:patsch

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    This Uk paper describes Johnson as being built like Jeffries in the shoulders and Fitzsimmons in the legs.

    I see a very muscular man here.
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    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pay6XBYfnRc[/ame]
     
    mcvey, Aug 30, 2011
    mcvey, Aug 30, 2011
    #81
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    A translation of the French from Le Figaro of the Johnson v Johnson fight, asked for by Matt Donnellon ,and Senya, respected posters on here and ,kindly provided by Chris Pontius our fellow poster,also a very valued poster.
    http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/cbzforum/archive/index.php?t-8127.html&
    This also mentions that Boxing News ,the oldest running fight magazine, stated it was a 10round fight at the time.
     
    mcvey, Aug 30, 2011
    mcvey, Aug 30, 2011
    #82
  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I told you to contact the CBZ. Did you? Ask for Mike Delisa or Chuck Hasson. They are the editors of the site. They say 20 rounds. The CBZ is better researched in comparison to Box Rec, and uses primary sources. So come back when you get the story, and remember to post it word for word here.
     
    Mendoza, Aug 30, 2011
    Mendoza, Aug 30, 2011
    #83
  9. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Mendoza, Aug 30, 2011
    Mendoza, Aug 30, 2011
    #84
  10. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I think Matt was right ,there really isn't any point in debating further with a moron.
     
    mcvey, Aug 30, 2011
    mcvey, Aug 30, 2011
    #85
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    No, and as i've already indicated, I'm not going to until you answer me. You didn't "tell me" to do anything, I told you I would get in touch with CBZ after you answered my question.

    You've now made multiple claims and totally failed to back them up. You've challenged me for primary sources, which I have provided and you then completely ignored.

    I am challenging you now to:

    1) Name the historians you have claimed to be corresponding with who you also claim have privately assured you the fight was 20 rounds.

    2) Name and reporduce/link the PRIMARY source you claim shows the fight was 20 rounds

    3) Respond to the multiple primary sources describing Johnson as tired and out of shape and explain why you are dismissing them.

    I know you have CBZ.

    I have Boxrec, multiple primary sources including one in French.

    I am not talking to CBZ, I am talking to you.

    Mendoza, you can't keep issuing challenges and demands without responding to any that are issued to you, you seem more ridiculous by the post right now.
     
    McGrain, Aug 30, 2011
    McGrain, Aug 30, 2011
    #86
  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    McGrain

    1 ) I gave you the names of the people to contact at the CBZ, who many moons ago before their board crashed had a thread on this topic. Try Mike Delisa, or Chuck Hasson. They are the editors, and list the fight as 20 rounds. Now that you have read the names at least twice are you going to check in with them?

    2 ) As a source the CBZ > Box Rec for research. Even Matt who is giving you reports would likely agree with that.

    3 ) As I told you multiple times 205 pounds was a good weigh for Johnson. In fact the poster McVey thinks it is very close to his prime weight. Once again, Johnson was active for this fight, and in a 6 round match his stamina would not be tested. Furthermore, the point you continue to tip top around is the fact that Johnson at age 35 and 37, and full 15-20 pounds heavier ( a sign he wasn't in as good of shape in 1909 ) went 20, and 26 rounds

    4 ) Lastly even if Johnson was not in his best shape ever, he was show up by a 160 pound pillow fisted middle who out landed him and made him look bad.
     
    Mendoza, Aug 31, 2011
    Mendoza, Aug 31, 2011
    #87
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    No. I am not asking you edits CBZ. I am asking you who are the two historians you were in private correspondence with who have given you a private assurance that this figh twas twenty rounds.

    Is it Mike Delisa and Chuck Hasson? Please be clear on this point.

    This does not answer "2)" at all. In 2) I asked you to name and reproduce/link the primary French source you claim lists the fight as a 20 round affair.

    Why is this so difficult to get a straight answer on? I have asked you five times.

    This does not answer "3)" at all. In three, I asked you for your reaction to the MULTIPLE eyewitness accounts stating Johnson was "tired", "out of shape", had "taken on flesh" etc., including that of the referee.

    What you have done is repeated EXACTLY THE SAME LINE YOU WERE SPOUTING BEFORE I PRODUCED THESE PRIMARY SOURCES. It is literally like you have never seen them.

    That is not in dispute.
     
    McGrain, Aug 31, 2011
    McGrain, Aug 31, 2011
    #88
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Should I quote the French press who also said Langford floored Johnson?
     
    Mendoza, Aug 31, 2011
    Mendoza, Aug 31, 2011
    #89
  15. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Mendoza, Aug 31, 2011
    Mendoza, Aug 31, 2011
    #90
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