Jack Johnson v Ezzard Charles 15rds?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Aug 25, 2011.


Page 9 of 9
  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,406
    48,809
    Mar 21, 2007
    Reportng on this fight is an attrocious mess, due in no small part to the distances involved. Some had Jack others had John.

    The NYT had Johnson reeling at the end of ten and said that it was "clear that if the fight had gone on much longer he would have been knocked out."
     
    McGrain, Sep 1, 2011
    McGrain, Sep 1, 2011
    #121
  2. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,744
    80
    Apr 4, 2010
    Why is this gay thread still going on?
     
    El Bujia, Sep 1, 2011
    El Bujia, Sep 1, 2011
    #122
  3. Swarmer

    Swarmer Patrick Full Member

    19,654
    52
    Jan 19, 2010
    Well I think McGrain's trying to overload Mendoza so we have to send him back to Microsoft again.
     
    Swarmer, Sep 1, 2011
    Swarmer, Sep 1, 2011
    #123
  4. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

    82,426
    1,470
    Sep 7, 2008
    Is this gonna' be the new 5000 page plus 'Louis Vs Vitali'? Covering the same ground again, and again, and again, and again, and again....
     
    Flea Man, Sep 1, 2011
    Flea Man, Sep 1, 2011
    #124
  5. SonnyListonsJab

    SonnyListonsJab Active Member Full Member

    1,148
    3
    Apr 24, 2011
    Jack Johnson never fought one opponent even remotely like Ezzard Charles in style and talent. I think Ezz fought quite a few guys comparable to johnson both physically and talent wise.
     
    SonnyListonsJab, Sep 1, 2011
    SonnyListonsJab, Sep 1, 2011
    #125
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,406
    48,809
    Mar 21, 2007
    :lol:


    That's not up to me.

    I don't think a poster should be allowed to continually allowed to duck, weasel out of and continually perpetrate mis-truths in the face of stacked emperical evidence. Why not wait for an answer?


    As an aside, and i won't lie, it isn't the main thing, but as an aside, the last few pages of this thread have produced more primary sources per-post than most of your average "history" threads. Anyone who doesn't feel a little more elightened as to the Jim Johnson and O'Brien fights might want to keep checking it out to see if the editoral team at CBZ have anything interesting to say, most anyone else will already have learned something.

    Good thread, in short.
     
    McGrain, Sep 1, 2011
    McGrain, Sep 1, 2011
    #126
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,849
    29,293
    Jun 2, 2006
    You miss the point ,[not for the first time]I posted this because it is from the book and ,Mendoza seems to think the book confirms it was a 20round fight,it does not.
    If you think I picked it because it was fairly favourable towards Johnson, you are mistaken.
    Take the trouble to read my earlier posts and ,absorb them ,instead of just sniping and sneering from the sidelines as usual,and you will see that I included the NY Times report ,which is certainly not favourable towards Johnson ,and headlines with," Champion On The Verge Of Defeat." The post and, link is on page 6 of this thread.
    I guess you will have no problem with the NY Times,seeing as you used it as ammunition on pages 1 and 2 of this thread because it was favourable in its report towards O Brien in his 6 rounder with Johnson?:lol:
     
    mcvey, Sep 1, 2011
    mcvey, Sep 1, 2011
    #127
  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,355
    Jun 29, 2007
    I will be back on Sunday or Monday. Be sure to post your CBZ results here. If the CBZ, which is far better than Box rec changes and says 10 rounds, I'll go with the above fight report.
     
    Mendoza, Sep 1, 2011
    Mendoza, Sep 1, 2011
    #128
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,406
    48,809
    Mar 21, 2007
    As long as you are completely consistent about ignoring multiple primaries in favour of modern opinion, I guess that's fine. You should consider emailing them yourself though if you seem them as the absolute final word in history.

    Additionally, you continue to duck the two very reasonable questions you've been asked 10 times in the thread. Why, I wonder? I guess we'll never know.


    Here is what the final word in history has to say on Jack Johnson:

    Rated as possibly the best HW who ever fought...master of defence and almost flawless in all other aspects...fast, an outstanding jab and uppercut, almost impossible to hit clean.

    http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/jjohn.htm

    They seem to see him as top 3, possibly top 5. As you've said about 800 times, they ONLY use primary sources to draw these conclusions.

    Seems you're a bigger Johnson fan than you think.
     
    McGrain, Sep 2, 2011
    McGrain, Sep 2, 2011
    #129
  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    71,675
    27,389
    Feb 15, 2006
    What possible justification could you have for taking CBZ over primary sources?

    Do you think that the Archangel apears before the CBZ pannel, blows a golden trumpet, and declares "this fight lasted N rounds"?

    They get their information from primary sources like we do. If the primary sources contradict them, then I sorry, but they are wrong.
     
    janitor, Sep 2, 2011
    janitor, Sep 2, 2011
    #130
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,849
    29,293
    Jun 2, 2006
    How many opponents of Johnson's have you seen ?
     
    mcvey, Sep 2, 2011
    mcvey, Sep 2, 2011
    #131
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,849
    29,293
    Jun 2, 2006
    All that is required to end it, is an answer to McGrain's questions.

    1913-12-19 :
    This content is protected
    drew with
    This content is protected
    by PTS in round 10 of 10

    Location: Velodrome d'Hiver, Paris, Paris, France
    Referee:
    This content is protected


    "Jack Johnson, the heavyweight champion, and Battling Jim Johnson, another colored pugilist, of Galveston, Texas, met in a 10-round contest here tonight, which ended in a draw. The spectators loudly protested throughout that the men were not fighting, and demanded their money back. Many of them left the hall. The organizers of the fight explained the fiasco by asserting that Jack Johnson's left arm was broken in the third round. There is no confirmation of a report that Jack Johnson had been stabbed and no evidence at the ringside of such an accident. During the first three rounds he was obviously playing with his opponent. After that it was observed that he was only using his right hand. When the fight was over he complained that his arm had been injured. Doctors who made an examination, certified to a slight fracture of the radius of the left arm. The general opinion is that his arm was injured in a wrestling match early in the week, and that a blow tonight caused the fracture of the bone." Indianapolis Star
     
    mcvey, Sep 2, 2011
    mcvey, Sep 2, 2011
    #132
Page 9 of 9