As time goes on I rate Floyd's win over JMM higher.........

rofl

Those are 3 examples of literally hundreds of fights that could be listed where smaller fighters beat larger fighters or at least fought competitively. Those examples were just a few of many off the top of my head that makes your excuse invalid. Harry Greb, Henry Armstrong, Ray Robinson, Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns, Roberto Duran, Roy Jones, James Toney, Evander Holyfield, Manny Pacquiao, Sergio Martinez .... Do I really need to give you a history lesson or do you feel the need to make up ridiculous conditions about styles? Every one of those guys beat fighters with a variety of styles.

You guys insult MArquez more than you trash Floyd with this bull****. "wah, poor little Juanny Marquez didn't get a fair shake! His opponent was a few pounds heavier! :| If Floyd didn't weigh so much, he definitely would have won!"

Your fluff about the styles is just poor excuse making and you should try harder to make an excuse. Most boxing fans are actually aware that fighters jump up in weight classes ALL THE TIME and always have. You're not really fooling anyone.

Pee poisoning would be a better excuse than this ridiculous weight crap.

 

Yeah, he may taken a two year lay off, but that was perhaps the only disadvantage that Mayweather had to go through. He was taller, longer, stronger, bigger, younger, and faster. The idea that he didn't use his size to win and just "out-skilled" Marquez is laughable.

 

Absolutely!

To those that say that the physical size differential did'nt make much difference and that a matchup between Mayweather and Marquez at 130 lbs would play the same......a lesser skilled fighter 1/10 the skill level of Marquez (Jesus Chavez) pressed and through sheer physical strenghth and hustle was able to give Mayweather a good battle.

A fighter the skill level of Jesus Chavez, Marquez would have taken apart and dismantled in a more assertive fashion than Mayweather did.
.....my point being that at 130 lbs, the physical strenghth and power connect difference between there and at 147 lbs is huge.

At 130 lbs, Marquez at the very least can match his physical strenghth to Mayweather, and in fact I think Marquez would even exceed Mayweather's strenghth at 130 lbs. Remember, till Mayweather's first retirement, he was a fighter who normally walked up the ring ropes at +/- 2 or 3 lbs what he officially weighed.

......Marquez on the other hand entered the ring at 141 lbs for his juniorlightweight fight with Pacquiao.

Yes gentlemen, at 130 lbs, Marquez actually enters the ring a bigger fighter, which would open up some avenues for him to take advantage that he did'nt have at 147 lbs.

 

Floyd weight really wasn't the factor in the fight. It's not like he was using it to push Marquez around. He beat Marquez with his quickness and skill, a smaller Mayweather would of been even faster then the one that fought Marquez. Marquez was never in the fight to begin with for Floyd weight to be a factor to his victory. 135lbs or 147lbs Marquez would of still lost either way.

 

Of course weight was a factor. A fighter doesn't need to thow his weight around. The simple fact that the bigger fighter will not be affected as much by the smaller fighters punches(reverse that effect for the smaller fighter) has a huge effect on the fight.atsch

 

Did you see Marquez landing a high percentage of his shots? Because I sure didn't.

 

It's notable because the normally accurate Marquez wasn't really able to connect with anything clean throughout the fight, and barely connected with more than one punch at a time.

Granted there's the question of how the weight affected Marquez. I'm certain that it did, and it does the diminish the significance of this accomplishment. But...Marquez was, and still isn't the type of guy, who became successful due to outstanding physical gifts. He achieved success because of pristine punching technique and superior timing- which enabled him to defeat fighters who may have been more physically gifted.

Maybe the rise in weight affecting his timing...But something tells me the version that fought Mayweather that night still would have found a way to have more success against other WW's that evening. He almost certainly would have furnished Mayweather with a more difficult evening had his skill-set deteriorated to the extant that many thought it would following close to a two year layoff. Other LW's have fought successfully at WW in the past, after all. So the issue and question size, in and of itself, isn't the be all and end all of this argument.

So, imo, the fact that Mayweather was able to have an easy time of it against a fighter who was the number two fighter in the sport at the time is still notable. It's not his best win, but it's not something that can be dismissed out-right, either.

 

Floyd cheated on scale, period.

"It's notable because the normally accurate Marquez wasn't really able to connect with anything clean throughout the fight, and barely connected with more than one punch at a time" ....

maybe because Marquez was fat as a pig?

 

It's not like he looked like a miniature James Toney out there. And even if he did, I still think he'd have found a way to land more punches against lesser WW's. Really good quality fighters tend to have their moments..unless they're pitted against bigger opponents who happen to be of the same quality.

Mayweather was certainly the bigger guy. That's not in question. But his quality as a fighter on that evening can't be disputed, either.

 

Marquez didn't land enough to begin with, for his punches to have an effect on Floyd. Marquez said himself, that Floyd was hard to hit. As I said before Floyd speed and skill is what one the fight.

 

Floyd coudnt even make weight. It either means floyd was so high in weight and tried to cut so much weight and coudnt, or floyd intentionally didnt want to honor the weight agreement in which jmm might have never fought him if floyd would come over 145. I dont know which one is worst. At one time JMM hit floyd with a right hook flush to the chin and smile and kept coming at him. Chop chop who cant even crack and egg hit floyd and he's hurt. It means jmm has the power of a 130lbr fighting a legit welter weight. No credit along with pac vs jmm3. At least pac vs jmm3 will be a war, unlike the boring one sided jmm/floyd fight.

 

I dont think anyone is disputing that Marquez still possesed a quality skillset vs Mayweather.
What is to be disputed is that as the thread starter stated, "Mayweather outclassed Marquez with skill"......

......that certainly is to be disputed, as when you pit two fighters with an equal skillset, it does'nt take rocket science to figure out that if one of those fighters holds every physical advanatage outside of actual boxing skill, then the fighter that holds those advantages will almost always win and win comfortably.

Marquez on the night vs Mayweather was still quality, but he just did'nt have any physical advantages to draw upon to work his way into the fight.

Could Marquez outquick Mayweather? No

Outspeed? No

Overpower? No

Outmuscle? No

When you get on the inside to do damage, you best be prepared to either outquick, outspeed, overpower, or outmuslce,......none of which was possible for Marquez to be able to do.

Did Marquez have a height or a reach advantage to be able to play chess from the outside to keep Mayweather at distance, again a reasounding no.

Again, Mayweather had every physical advantage. It was Mayweather's fight for him to do as he pleased, and yet it was Marquez who was seen in the fight signalling Mayweather to bring it.....I think that was Marquez only chance to get in the fight, to have Mayweather get overconfident with his physical advantages that he opened himself for a big timing shot counter by Marquez.

From the beggining I had noted that Marquez' only chance in the fight was to have Mayweather make aggressive mistakes for Marquez to capitalize because short of having any physical advantages, how the hell was he going to create opportunities for himself for he to get in punching range and cause damage?


......and Drew, of course of Marquez is up at Welter against a bigger taller fighter. There are avenues to draw upon against lesser fighers who have a height and reach advantage, Marquez could be any of quicker, faster, and boxistically way above a bigger fighters boxing skill for Marquez to take advantage.
This is how smaller fighters beat bigger ones.

......and it takes me back to what I pointed out earlier.
Even if you have a skillset advantage, you're still behind the 8 ball if your opponent is much bigger than you and commands most if not all the physical advantage.
The example I gave and put a poll of in a different thread, was the more skilled Mayweather vs Roy Jones at 160 lbs.

.....as we have seen in that other thread, over 90% believes that Roy Jones mops the floor with the more skilled Mayweather, and its due to physical advantages why people believe this.

 

No, Marquez wasn't going to overpower, outmuscle, or outspeed Mayweather. I think that might hold true for a number of other welterweights, too. Yet, I still can't help but feel that he might have fared better against those other WW's than he did against Floyd that evening.

If Marquez is facing, say, Andre Berto, he's behind the 8 ball against a larger, faster guy. But something tells me that the Marquez who fought that night
might have found a way to close distance, and make the fight a bit more interesting than it was against Mayweather. He might have been able to work his way in behind the jab, and land at a higher connect percentage against Berto, by virtue of being a more technically sound fighter than Andre.

But, in Mayweather, he was facing a guy who was not only larger and faster, but also someone whose defensive reflexes hadn't really diminished or eroded to the extant that some people expected they would when this fight was signed. When combined with the fact that the timing and accuracy of his own punches was pretty sound in its own right, it made it a much easier fight than a lot of people might have anticipated (or hoped).

So, I think it's a case of both size and skill. Mayweather might not have outclassed Marquez in terms of skill- but it was present, and it did allow him to exploit the physical advantages he had over JMM.

 

We're not disagreeing here. I actually said the same in my previous post.

Mayweather was able to use his physical advantages to great effect because he had the skill to go along with it.
Nobody here is disputing that.
......but anyone saying that Mayweather's physical advantages did'nt play a "major role" in the way the fight unfolded, does'nt know jack about boxing.

 

RIght, and the fact that JMM looked bloated and slow because he was in a division he did'nt belong in had no effect on the fight!