Jack Johnson v Lennox Lewis

Mind if I mix the argument up a bit?

I think that Johnson might fare better against Tyson than the other three, simply because Tyson was easier to neutralize on the inside by holding and infighting.

It is not a theory that I want to see put to the test with my money behind it!

 

Lewis in a one sided as hell affair, possibly stopped within three.

Whenever I see Johnson box his technical ability looks so so crude.

 

Come on man, this guy looks about as big as Paul Williams

 

I'm not ruling rocky out, I wouldn't rule him out against anyone.

I just think someone as... raw... as rocky was would struggle with someone as defensively sharp as johnson.

I think johnson takes it on points but in a fight to the finish I think the supremely conditioned iron willed rocky might outlast him (or anyone)

 

Do you think johnson could neutralise tyson's attack however?

I'm talking 86-88 tyson and maybe johnson has the tricks to pull it off but he'll be the weaker man in that ring and he won't be able to stop tyson getting in and scoring. Mike might have to settle for points in this one but only if johnson is on his a game.

Likewise if tokyo tyson showed up I think johnson stops him.

 

Johnson did not have the reach or jab to pull a Tokyo on Tyson. I think he loses to all but the most dissipated version of Tyson.

And here let me state I am not giving Johnson the benefit of the doubt in regards to his potential adjustments to the modern ring, i.e. allowing for him to adapt to modern ring technique. I am merely going on what he actually accomplished and those he accomplished it against.

 

I dont know if i think that Johnson would be the weaker man in the ring than Tyson. Definitely Tyson would be the better hitter, but i think that Johnson would probably manhandle him around a bit in any pushing contests. I think that Johnson's weight on the back foot style and his wrestling tactics and skills in the clinch, will neutralise and tyre out Tyson. Tyson's best chance is to catch Johnson cleanly and decisively. He is definitely capable of it, but i dont think it is too likely. The biggest difference between Johnson and Bonecrusher Smith and Co is that Johnson will actually land solid punches in the clinch.

It really is a different ruleset the two operated under and it is unfair on Tyson to expect him to fight under conditions he is not skilled to do so. I think Johnson picks him apart under his rules, which is the only reasonable rules to use. Tyson would need to rely on the KO early to get the result, i think.

 

I can't see jack manhandling iron to be completely honest.

Nor do I think he'd land many significant punches.

 

Most of the Moran fight is available I haven't got it at the moment , a friend has , I've viewed it a few times, I don't honestly see it as anywhere even as a fight.And this is a 36 years old Johnson who was 221lbs in this fight.
Johnson jabs the **** out of Ketchel, who kod O Brien,I dont see O Brien out jabbing Jack.
Likewise I've seen the O Brien/ Burns footage, O Brien is a runner .Burns is clearly his master.As Johnson was clearly Burns master.
You speak of the footage as though it is rare and, only you have seen it why?
Willard had an excellent jab as can be seen against Moran and ,even when he was an old man against Floyd Johnson.Jess also carried real power in his right hand.

Footage shows Johnson to be carrying 221lbs ,with a roll of fat around his hips and, surplus suet on his arse,yet he is never in any trouble against his challenger.
You reckon Johnson should be 205lbs ,not so long ago you stated his best weight was 192lbs ,either way, he is well over that here.

Questions.
Who is getting the better of the exchanges here?
Who is landing his jab?
Who is slipping the right and ,countering effectively?


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSFnFS1snmk[/ame]

Early in the fight, Moran misses with his Mary Ann,and tries the old Max Baer back hand but misses.
Johnson contols him on the inside and allows him to dig ineffectually away at his fat midriff to little avail. As Carpentier calls break ,Johnson bangs home his uppercut breaking Moran's nose ,it is not clear from the film because there is no audio, how late Johnson's punch was, but Carpentier can be seen admonishing Johnson. Moran resumes ,clinches with Jack ,is tied up and, then lands several rabbit punches ,for which he is not warned.
Johnson is clearly winning this fight on the footage available . I don't see where you are coming from.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnoPdAlINys[/ame]

 

This is from CBZ.

Photographs of Griffin make him appear to be 6-2 or 6-3 and about 200 lbs

His greatest skills as a boxer were the use of his long arms in jabbing an opponent and his defensive ability.

Paul Williams below.

This content is protected

 

Johnson in 1915

This content is protected

In1910No0 [plumping up here]

This content is protected

 

No middleweight ever knocked Jack Johnson out.And well you know it.

 

Mendoza must be talking about Joe Choynski, but Johnson wasn't a heavyweight or even a lightheavyweight when Choynski KO'd him.

 

You are correct , Johnson scaled 168lbs for a fight,10 months before this.
Choynski scaled 169lbs for his next fight ,after the Johnson win.

 

So they were essentially supermiddleweights at that time. :good