How washed up was Jim Jeffries

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Jeffries had 18 months to lose weight? When was the fight signed?

 

1909 the fight was formally signed but Jeffries had begun working out in his barn and , started dieting previous to that.
When they met for the signing, they had not been face to face since 1905, onlookers estimated that Jeffries was 30lbs heavier than Johnson at the time of the signing.
After news broke that they would meet Jeffries went on two consecutive theatrical tours. The second one which was not as profitable to Jeffries as the first,[ promoted by William Morris] ,[the second was promoted by Harry Frazee and ,Barney Curley] Jeffries was guaranteed $1,000 a week, plus a proportion of the gross receipts. Jeffries eventually received a cheque for $112,500, from Frazee and Curley for the second tour.
Johnson meanwhile was also on a theatrical tour but, in a much less high profile and , profitable one.

 

I've seen all the extant footage of Jeffries.
Stop with the privileged historian **** ,you have been comprehensively exposed on that score.
You need a Manger.:yep

 

Jeffries was a horrible shell of the man who fought Monroe ... six years without lacing up a glove, a training camp where he lost realistically sixty some odd pounds .. zero serious sparring ... zero tune ups ... he was every bit as shot as Ali was against Holmes ..

 

This is stretching it imo.Ali had the beginnings of Parkinson's Syndrome ,a thyroid condition, bad hands,that had to be injected with novocaine,kidneys that were slowly degenerating and ,was 37 years old.
He had engaged in 54 fights ,many of them killers,with the biggest collection of punchers any heavyweight champ ever faced.
Liston, Foster,Lyle,Shavers,Foreman,Frazier,Norton.etc
Plus second tier punchers such as Quarry,and Bonavena.

When he came back he was fighting young studs 200lbs plus and taking considerable punishment in ring wars with the likes of Frazier x3 ,Norton x3,Foreman, Chuvalo etc.

Jeffries had his last fight as champion when he was 29 he had 200rds of boxing at that time, he faced men significantly smaller and ,older,two of his greatest rivals were coming out of 2 years retirement, both were in their middle to late thirties.
Two of his most significant wins were scored over men 36 and 39years old whom he outweighed by 27and 47lbs
He faced one man of any class who was near his own size .He had size advantage in all his fights .
Ali in his second coming was the same age as Jeffries was when he retired 29,difference was Jeffries faced no hoper Jack Munroe , Ali faced the best fighter in the division Joe Frazier.
Ali was an older man facing men as big or bigger than himself who were younger.
Ali had 539 rounds of boxing on his body when he faced Holmes many of them rounds fought against younger stronger 200lbs plus men who were heavy duty bangers. He had over twice the mileage on his clock as Jeffries and ,a lot of it mileage sustained when he was past his best.
His last 5 fights had all gone 15 rds, allready burdened with medical problems[read the " Fight Doctor"] with hindsight, he was an accident waiting to happen.

Jeffries ring wars were against smaller lighter and all but one, older men undergone when he was young and in his prime
Jeffries was in nowhere near the sorry shape Ali was.

 

So its your contention that Jeffries was merely "diminished" after five years off, being in his mid thirties, and coming down from over 300 pounds, not to mention he wasnt even interested in the fight outside of the obscene amount of money they threw at him...

While fighting an opponent who was younger, active, and in his absolute prime (and whose greatest wins came against smaller men as well, which you seem to hold against Jeffries).

This performance is somehow indicative of how a prime Jeffries would look against Johnson...

As Dr. Evil would say: Riiiighht...

 

Ketchel thought so little of Jeffries abilities that he wanted to KO him during ring introductions and be rid of the whole embarrassment to the white race that was due to follow.

 

Jeffries looked to be in shape.....was fairly muscular and didn't look like Chris Arreola at the time of the fight....but he certainly wasn't in ring shape.

Ali looked in shape against Holmes too, but he most definitely not in good physical condition.

 

Roy Jones and Ray Leonard were more mobile in their 30's than Toney was during his 20's. This has nothing to do with their relative quality as athletes or boxers; it's just that Toney fought as a stationary counterpuncher.

Similarly -- judging from the footage of Corbett both in his prime and loooong after it -- I suspect that even a 33-year-old Corbett was more mobile than a 32-year-old Johnson.

Also, Johnson's ring footage in that clip still consists mostly of stationary waiting games and lunge/blitz attacks, although he does bounce on his toes on one occasion.

 

I used the term "diminished" ,I never prefixed it with" merely " ,please don't attempt to put words in my mouth ,I find I can speak quite well for myself.

If you take the trouble to trawl through my posts over the years ,you won't find one of them giving Johnson undue credit for beating the diminished Jeffries.

I have never pretended Jeffries was anything but a facsimile of the man that went unbeaten during his reign.

My post above mentioned the fact that Jeffries opponents were older and much smaller to illustrate to HE Grant that he had nowhere near the mileage from ring battles and ,gym wars on the clock that Ali ,[with whom he had compared him ] had when at 37 he faced Holmes.


Jeffries was interested in the fight allright, he hated Johnson's guts and,privately referred to him as, " the skunk".

Jeffries got caught up in the unsavoury white redeemer crap and made some spectacularly ill- judged and ,offensive remarks regarding the fight and restoring the honour of the White Race.

If he had not been so greedy ,making two fortunes out of his planned comeback' doing nationwide tours he might have gotten himself into better shape.

His entourage pleaded with him to engage younger quicker sparring partners but Jeffries remained obdurate and did things his way. Johnson was so sure he would win, he wired his brother Claude saying, "bet your last copper on me". Johnson received $20,000 from Barron Wilkins and bet it all on himself, he allready knew who the best man was.

" This performance is somehow indicative of how a prime Jeffries would look against Johnson".
I never suggested that ,and,again ,if you go through my posts you will find I say the exact opposite.

I remember in one post saying it might have been an early Ali /Frazier battle, easily proved, if you want to go through my posts.
On this very thread, I said I would pick Johnson prime for prime ,but that it would be an entirely different fight with a hard fought decision victory for Johnson at the end of it.
If I've rattled your cage with my posts I couldn't care less.

Perhaps you will take the trouble to ascertain the veracity of your remarks in future?
I am concerned though ,with your apparent eagerness to distort printed words made by another to fit your own allegiances.
Disturbing when one thinks about the long awaited book you are supposed to be engaged in writing., One hopes you are more even handed at interpreting the facts you come across regarding Mr Greb.

Whether you have willfully misinterpreted my post,to put your own spin on it.or just missed the point entirely ,only you know, but I repeat, in none of my 13,287 posts will you find me giving Johnson more than the minimum credit due him for his humiliation of Jim Jeffries.
Riiiight ! I don't know Dr Evil ,or the reference but I know there is only one h in it.

N.B. This photo of Jeffries, with Kid McCoy and, Rickard was taken in 1906,Jeffries doesn't look anything like 330lbs in it.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVa0GNDAP8E[/ame]

Below is Jeffries with Sam Berger in 1909

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Jeffries on his tour, early 1910.

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Jeffries on Jan 1st 1909 in Chicago,no 300lbs there.bear in mind he fought Johnson 18months later
This photo is from the Chicago Daily News ,so easily verified

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Does he look anywhere near 300lbs here, Jan 1st 1909?

 

This is unsubstantiated tosh.
Ketchel was thrown out of Jeffries camp bodily,by wrestler Farmer Burns because he dared to pick, "that n****r over me".

 

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^^^This is McVey's MO.