Once Haye stepped into the ring with Wlad, he quickly realized...

Lol its true, the way he fights leaning foward the jab almost comes from the ankle

I highly doubt Haye would fight aggressively though, I assume it would be the same, I just wonder how, assuming that Vitali cannot match him athletically whereas Wlad could (or close), it would pan out

 

yes suppose it would be valuev esq again...haye would def have some success tho vitali is a great fighter but he just dosnt have baby bros speed:good:good

 

The thing that i notice most in this fight is Volodymyr's athleticism. One thing that Haye is exceptional at is closing distance and that's why people always say he has good fotwork. His footwork in general is garbage especially his balance but closing distance he is great at. When he would try jumping into range Vova was able to back away just as fast and keep in mind he's reacting to Haye who has a 'head start'. The rare instance he couldn't pull out in time he did a very good job blocking with his left or actually rolling with it and blocking with his shoulder.

Vova was also fighting with his left near his waist most the fight (Vitali style) which is out of character for him, seemed alot less stiff/standing straight up than usual and i honestly think he blocked every single left hook that Haye threw the entire fight.

Ibragimov, Byrd, Chambers, Chagaev, Haye all said the same thing. They thought they would have a hand and foot speed advantage and when they got in there were very suprised at how athletic he was and that they didn't have any significant speed advantage.

Haye's defense was alot better than i thought. In the Ruiz fight at certian points Ruiz was walking him down and Haye was eating jab after jab. He can obviously slip that when he wants to. Aside from that Haye was exactly how i'v always percieved him.

Based on what. I see people say this but if anything i think Vitali is harder to hit and gets hit less than Vova.

 

^ what's with the gay pet names?

Vitali is slow but oddly enough people can't seem to counter him effectively. Haye will have more success with his accuracy than he did with Wlad.

 

Yes, that is what he was hoping for.

I agree, he didn't see a Brewster on Golota type bumrush as being worth the risk, so he waited and hoped Wlad would throw something big, miss, and be extended and vulnerable.

But Haye did get a chance in the 12th where he did catch Wlad with a stunningshot that hurt Wlad, regardless of what some say. He WAS stunned/hurt.. Had Haye been able to break Wlad's 12 second clinch and riding around the ring like a horse, maybe Haye would have been able to followup.

But Wlad (Vova LOL) was nailed and hard, and held on cause he didn't want any more of that.

 

You must have been watching a different fight than I was. All I saw was a guy with a big mouth being exposed for not having any real boxing skills. Sure he has athleticism but he can't box. Wlad exposed him as a fraud.

 

I've said something similar, but the ultimate difference between Wladimir and Vitali is something we're all well aware of. Wladimir can be broken. Physically and more important mentally. Not the case with Vitali. I'm pretty confident Adamek would have caused Wladimir a little more trouble if you switch the matchups. The wrong guys fought each other. There's a chance Wladimir would have stopped Adamek early - based on the right hands from last night - but all in all that's my feeling. Haye had way more of a chance to win and didn't try nearly as hard as Adamek did.

 

Vova is the diminutive for Volodymyr and is quicker to type, same way with Kostya instead of Konstantin. Don't blame me that you're dumb yanks.

 

Maybe but there's no real reason to believe this. Adam Booth basically said he did everything according to the plan but Wlad just the better man. Booth did admit he told Haye to try do some things but realized he couldn't for whatever reason (Toe?). Booth seemed to have the same plan in the Grooves-Degale fight. His strategy doesn't seem to change. Haye has always been in nature a counter-puncher that liked to set traps. This only accelerated upon his arrival in the Heavyweight division.

I don't why Haye thought crashing in wasn't his best plan. If he had underestimated his footwork and speed you would think he would have realized that moving boxing and trying to counter-punch from a long range wouldn't work. He should've known this was a nightmare scenario if he thought Wlad was faster and had better foot-speed than he had anticipated. The truth in his best plan was always to be aggressive and take chances, regardless of the risk of a KO in doing so. I don't believe Haye changed his gameplan. He was on the move from the absolute gecko. He never even gave "crashing in" a chance at the onset of the opening bell of the 1st round.

Adamek is a blown up LHW. His speed and physical attributes are no where near what Haye's are. Adamek wasn't even comfortable moving forward or boxing. He was getting hammered from long range and close range. He just doesn't have the skills or abilities of the K brothers, and he's not even in the same league as Haye to be frank. He's just very medicore, so I think your Adamek analogy is an awful comparison. The frustrating thing about the Wlad-Haye fight was that Haye COULD HAVE won if took chances. The biggest point of offense Haye created was in the 12th round when he fake/feinted a left hook and throw a right cross over the top. It definitely got Wlad's attention and embarrassed him. Wlad has always been overly reactive, and that's why that set up shot worked. The feints of Haye were effective, he just needed to muster up the aggression. Wlad's doesn't take chances and doesn't like to engage. He likes to control range and he doesn't really counter-punch past tat for tat. This is why you need to dictate and take the fight to him. a Counter-punching strategy is an absolute nightmare scenario.

You said you seperate Wlad & Vitali in another thread but it appears you don't. Vitali is much more akin to a fighter and mixes it up with unorthodox punches. Wlad does not. This is why Haye's natural style would be much more suitable for Vitali (Although Vitali's activity would no doubt be Haye's undoing). But Haye would be much more suited counter-punching against Vitali because Vitali is much more counter-able.

 

I actually buy this, but I'm not quite sure his plan all of a sudden changed. The same realization came to Adamek when it was instantly apparent that he was uncomfortable against Vitali during the opening seconds of the 1st round.

 

his plan the whole time was to stay outside Wlad's range and then to lunge in with powershots and then clinch or get out of range.

it failed.

 

Great response.

Harold Lederman in the HBO made it sound like Vitali was open to the right hand in some form of an overhand right or a counter right. Steward corrected him by saying he leans away and he's not really as easy it appears to hit. The honest truth is he's far more counter-able than Wlad. More hittable to considering Haye's athleticism. I know he Vitali was injured but Byrd wasn't hitting Wlad not nearly as much. Of course Haye will still have to take some chances considering Vitali's activity in comparison to Wlad's. But still, he has a greater style matchup I've always thought.

 

The rest of your post makes good sense. So I don't want you to think I'm ignoring the rest, but this part is just confusing.:huh


Anyone with half a brain who has actually watched the two of them knows that Vit is nowehre near as mobile as Wlad, yet he is more aggressive with the much better chin.


I don't see how you can derive anything different from my post.


Despite the fact that the two brothers fight diferrently, when the chips are down, they still have plenty of similarities. The most glaring of these is the height and reach, and the willingness to use that advantage effectively. You can't get around it, and neither could Haye.

 

But Haye doesn't know how to initiate that distance. He has the athleticism to close the distance, but doesn't have the skills to initiate closing the distance. He doesn't know how to control space. Wlad jumping straight back with a pawed jab displays good athleticism but not sound defensive. Haye did nothing to push forward with a jab, or double jab. Just a lot of faux rushes that Wlad backed away from or reacted to. Anytime Haye closed the distance he just re-set at a long range. He simply did not know what to do even when he was capable of getting at a closer range. Mainly this is because Haye is not an in-fighter. He has no real tools or skills on the inside. This is why he always re-set and was comfortable trying to fight from a distance. He simply gave up the range he negotiated for. You didn't become impressed with Wlad's athleticism too much against Brewster or lumbering Peter. This is merely because they sustained some form of forward momentum to trouble and hit and get after Wlad.

Yes, Wlad is not nearly the same fighter he was at that point. That is true, but it's not like he's gotten more athletic with age. So the point still has some validity.

 

if Haye was so pathetic in that fight why the **** couldnt Wlad or didnt Wlad go after him and try to stop him? Wlad played a big role in the fight let down as well, neither guy did **** to win so stop pretending like Wlad dominated, on paper maybe in the ring far from it