Once Haye stepped into the ring with Wlad, he quickly realized...

I fail to understand this argument. Haye dived in over and over again with looping shots. Especially in the 12th. He was clearly going for the KO.

 

Great analysis, that's how I saw it

 

The bottom line is Haye basically has fight the same exact way in every HW fight (Bearing the Barret fight for obvious reasons I think). He fought that way at CW, but even more so at HW has his activity and aggressiveness dropped.

What I'm saying is that Vitali's well known aggressiveness would give Haye more opportunities with his natural counter-punching approach. Wlad is the better athlete that's faster. Considering Wlad's athleticism safety first approach you'd be doomed to try and out-box the man. Vitali on the other hand mixes it up, and while "fighting" and pushing back both K brothers has been a prototype for many fighters (Brewster, Sanders, Lewis, Byrd). It's while known that Vitali is harder to boss. I don't think Haye could aggressively try to bomb out Vitali, but could against Wlad because of their differences. At the same time Haye's approach against Wlad against Vitali would be much more effective in my honest opinion.

Basically, I don't see how you can use Adamek as a prototype for how bombing out a K brother is ineffective. They are different. Wlad is so reactive and unwilling to fight that it's a good to force him to fight you off by attack him. Vitali is more of a natural fighter, more durable, more willing to mix it up. You can try a dog fight if you're Lennox Lewis, but because he's much more willing to mix it up he's easier to counter. Haye would lose to Vitali with his approach anyway so it's probably moot.

 

A lot of faux rushes. The 12th round was his best point of created offense (Rather than merely trying to counter Wlad's jab with a right). It was Haye's shining moments. Had he pushed forward and attacked more he could've won. He just would have to do something he was uncomfortable with and take risks. Wlad was fearful of getting hit. I don't see him handling a caution to the wind approach ideally. Of course all this is easier to type up hence Wlad actually won. Wlad should have won too, he's the better fighter. Doesn't mean Haye couldn't have. Opportunities existed.

 

Not the first time I have seen Wlad clinch after getting tagged. It's a part of his safety first approach. Saying he was hurt to this or that extent seems like guessing.

Wlad knew there would be a fallow up every time Haye connected, since Hayes and Booths excuse for a "gameplan" was that Wlad would fold when the heat was turned on. Naturally Wlad was prepared to tie Haye up to prevent it. Was it really a big deal?

 

How can you not see that trying to out-box and counter Wlad from a distance is not a nightmare strategy? Wlad is quite possibly one of the most difficult Heavyweights to out-box. Ali would plenty of difficulties against Wlad. Against Vitali? He would simply school him. That's why I'm saying Haye would have a much better chance with a less aggressive approach against Vitali!

 

I definitely feel he underestimated wlads speed, everyone does

 

I think the only time the toe was an issue was when he was getting inside and Wlad was wrestling him to the floor. I don't think had the toe been fully healed it would've made a significant difference on his gameplan and his attempts to land the big one. Haye's always been wild with his shots, and the reach didn't help at all, not to mention Wlad simply doesn't take chances, doesn't come in with Hooks or Uppercuts and is always pumping out the jab/straight and has more than enough experience with the inside game to keep Haye off him or hold him if things get rough.

Vitali will do no such thing though, he'll decimate him.

 

Wlad landed some straight rights that made Hayes head fling backwards. They were clear power shots that rocked Haye.

Hayes looping shot made Wlad flinch and clinch, but it's hard to say if he really was affected by it. Wlad sometimes tie people up just to play it safe.

You could also see Haye was more bruised afterwards.

Wlad landed more meaingfull punches.

 

I agree with your points of Haye, his overall boxing skill & ring IQ are frankly terrible. That's what confuses me since alot of people, including yourself, say how Haye could have won the fight, list the stratagies Haye failed to employ but overlook the fact that those skills are things that David doesn't possess.

Your observations on his ability to effectively utilize that athleticism with his footspeed along with his lack of in fighting ability and non existant combination punching are the most frequent things people mention. Haye is the fighter he is, what he is not is an amalgamation of Ali's footwork circa 1966 & Tyson's combination punching and in side game.

Regarding Vova it isn't just me like i said Byrd, Chambers, Haye, Ibragimov, Chagaev seemed to be impressed too and i do think there's a difference in the time periods you mentioned. Klychko had that athleticism but didn't utilize it properly. Under Stewart his defensive footwork has improved imo plus clinching and tieing a guy up when they got inside was a completely foreign concept to him.

He used to be alot more willing to stand in the pocket and try to pull away ala Vitali make you miss or block shots then counter. Now he's either punching you in the face or simply out of his opponents range. In the Peter fight that aspect of his footwork along with the unfamiliararity with clinching made a big difference. Against Brewster he was beating the **** out of him until Don King's liquid voodoo took effect (and was his first fight with Manny some the above observations apply)

 

Pete pretty much made my point.
Haye simply is not a pressure fighter. He fought like he fights as his best as a counter-puncher. Vlad simply is not a good style match-up for him.
Haye is really a very athletic and smart fighter and really respect his skills,but I doubt that bullsrushing Wlad would have done him any good for the simple fact that he is not comfortable with that style and lacks some key skills to pull it off at a world level. You don't change your style so drastically going up against the best HW in the world.

There were some comparisons due to his speed and power, but Haye is not Mike Tyson. People need to accept that. He does not have the mental set-up and durability to be successfull with that style at HW. It takes time to learn fighting styles. It does not comoe overnight.

 

I thought Haye was absolute **** and other than avoiding being hit brought nothing to the table. He was an embarrassment and his "effort" was putrid IMO.

 

I also don't think Wlad was terribly hurt in the 12th. Rather caution. He came back with 2 1-2 and pretty much got Haye backpeddling again the rest of the round.