Gans/McGovern

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by GamboaP4P, Sep 18, 2011.


  1. GamboaP4P

    GamboaP4P New Member Full Member

    36
    0
    Sep 13, 2011
    Fixed? Not fixed? Lets get a debate going with both sides. Without going real in-depth here is my take on both sides:

    Fixed: Gans thought that with the current lynchings going on around the the country (not just the south) his life was in danger. He had also just been served an arrest warrant, and figured being stuck in jail as a new black champion was not going to help anything. With the odds of McGovern right around 10/1 at an early stoppage Gans (or his manager more so) could have bet and made a fortune.

    Not Fixed: McGovern was on a tear. No one lasted past 8 rounds that year with him, and that includes Dixon. Gans and his manager also signed a written letter published in the papers that it was a real fight, and that Gans took a hard body shot the first round he didnt recover from. Last but not least: no real proof is out there it was fixed. Hard proof that is.
     
  2. klompton

    klompton Boxing Addict banned

    5,667
    39
    Jul 6, 2005
    Obvious fix. Cracks me up when people try to justify the KDs as legit.
     
  3. Surf-Bat

    Surf-Bat Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,736
    97
    Jul 20, 2010
    I concur. Watch the film and it becomes painfully obvious.
     
  4. GamboaP4P

    GamboaP4P New Member Full Member

    36
    0
    Sep 13, 2011
    Yeh I just did and he didnt do much of anything in the fight. I lean towards fix myself for many other reasons, but wanted more opinions
     
  5. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    12,968
    2,411
    Jul 11, 2005
    There were rumors about it being pre-arranged, that Gans is to be knocked out, before the fight, with the betting odds clearly representing that. New York Evening World had it on their front page 'FIGHT "FAKE" DENIED' hours before the bout began, with a story of Lou Houseman (of the Tattersall's) summoning Al Herford (Gans' manager) to question him why there's so much money offered against Gans by colored people (who were supposed to support Gans). There were a lot of stories, like a man coming to Chicago city hall offices two days before the fight with $8K to bet on McGovern, Chicago saloonkeeper, where colored sporting fans gather, sending a messenger to Louisville and Cincinnati to wager $5K on McGovern, Otto Flotto of Denver Post saying there were lots of money offered on McGovern winning, more than he had seen before in Denver, obviously from out of town bettors, etc.
     
  6. GamboaP4P

    GamboaP4P New Member Full Member

    36
    0
    Sep 13, 2011
    well the interesting part of the betting is that Herford lost a reported 5k+ betting on his man. That doesnt exactly say fix
     
  7. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    12,968
    2,411
    Jul 11, 2005
    He might have won more money by betting anonymously (via other people) against Gans. Of course, there's no proof, but it's possible he could have done that.
     
  8. GamboaP4P

    GamboaP4P New Member Full Member

    36
    0
    Sep 13, 2011
    I thought about that right after I posted. Lose 5k on obvious bets, bet 5k on 10/1 odds and you are still doing good
     
  9. timmers612

    timmers612 Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,018
    416
    Sep 25, 2005
    To me it all depends on whether the first clear right hand Terry landed on Joe's head really hurt him. It was a clear enough shot and if it did hurt Joe badly it might account for his going down untouched a few seconds later. Thats the possibility for this,,,,however Nat Fleischer who was a big Terry fan and thought him the greatest of all bantam champs said this about the bout, "Terry was good, but he wasn't that good."
     
  10. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

    14,241
    154
    Mar 4, 2009
    Fix in my opinion. If not, it would lower Gans's historical standing due to a very poor effort. Where were the sharp counter-punches of the Nelson and Herman fights? It's not like McGovern didn't leave any openings.
     
  11. GamboaP4P

    GamboaP4P New Member Full Member

    36
    0
    Sep 13, 2011
    Right. To play the devils advocate here, it was EXTREMELY common to call fix in short fights and Gans was widely labeled for them. Part of me thinks that stigma has carried throughout the years whether it was a fix or not. Hell - it was even called a fix when he beat Erne for the title. One newspaper said it was a fix for Erne and that Gans unfairly fought and caught Erne off guard. LOL
     
  12. young griffo

    young griffo Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,492
    7,252
    May 18, 2006
    When I first saw this fight I thought it just looked like Gans got overwhelmed by the type of pressure and non stop punching that McGovern brought and I doubt that Gans had faced before in the slower paced turn of the century style of fighting.

    That is until I watched the Gans-Kid Herman fight. Gans looked like a totally different fighter here. I know that Herman was no McGovern but Gans' footwork,defense,composure and punching bore no resemblance to his frankly inept display against McGovern.

    So either it was a fix or Gans (who was already an acknowleged master by the time he met McGovern) improved still further out of sight in the intervening years between McGovern and Herman. My money's now on the former.
     
  13. GamboaP4P

    GamboaP4P New Member Full Member

    36
    0
    Sep 13, 2011
    Thanks for the input Griffo. I have not seen any Gans fights aside from this one but all my reading says he was not himself this fight as well.

    Speaking of Griffo I have read that many had him winning his first encounter with Gans
     
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,354
    Jun 29, 2007
    This content is protected


    This content is protected
     
  15. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

    14,241
    154
    Mar 4, 2009
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT23JRnvMR4[/ame]

    5:30

    I'm not sure if the punch landed. Gans also seems angered when the referee tries to carry him to his corner. He is falling over from nothing at the end yet is coherent enough to congratulate McGovern for his victory.