Gans/McGovern

This is like Ray Robinson going out for a fight against Armstrong and letting himself get leveled in no time flat. Just doesn't make any sense. Also, you can obviously get hurt if you're taking a dive too Mendoza, given that the concept involves taking punches to the face with somewhat minimal defense

 

i agree and what seals it for me is gans' reaction AFTER the knockout. his near instant recovery and shaking mcgovern's hand (if memory serves)

 

And this is what Im talking about. Talk about some horse****. I did a frame by frame study of this film for J. J. Johnson's book on Chicago boxing to illustrate the fact that the punch which knocked Gans down never lands. It loops around behind his head, just as several other punches had done before hand with no damage. It illustrates that Gans was clever enough to move his head an inch forward, let the punch go around the neck without doing damage, and then fall backwards. It was a terrible acting job. Compare this performance with his 1906 bout with Nelson, who was bigger, stronger, and hit harder than McGovern (Not to mention he fought successfully against men much bigger and harder hitting than McGovern or Nelson). Furthermore McGovern had never beaten a top fighter as big as Gans, or anywhere near as talented and never would again. It was bad enough that they banned Boxing in Chicago for over 20 years. In short, it was about the worst kept secret in the sport even then.

 

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He's saying he did a study on the film for the book, not that he studied the film from the book (which wouldn't make sense).

Gans fell in a sitting position, he was hardly laid out.

 

What are we to make of the footage?
McGovern looks so raw and ,clumsy, you would expect Barry McGuigan to take him out inside 3 rds.
Gans throws nothing ,no jabs, no fast hard right , he concentrates on parrying Terry's lunges until he goes down from what looks like a palpable miss on the grainy film.This is as unconvincing a stoppage as I have seen. FAKE.

 

Actually if you crack open JJs book and look on page 21 you will see a frame by frame study of the first knockdown of the fight from as a pristine a copy of the film as exists and it clearly shows that the punch in question not only goes around the back of Gans head (and doesnt connect) but it even extends out past his shoulders/back, almost hugging him. Gans then slowly falls back into a sitting position. Its ridiculous. If you want to believe that punch actually landed (it did not) and in a such damaging place (it did not) and with such force (it did not) as to drop one of the greatest fighters in history who was bigger and stronger, and who had faced much bigger and stronger and harder hitting men than McGovern without a whimper or a wobble then so be it. Some people wont be convinced even when confronted with the proof.

 

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It's important to remember that Gans showed throughout his career, a poor punch resistance, in Decembers and/or rounds with a two in them.

 

That page is available for preview at Google Books - http://books.google.com/books?id=i-n2DDO6r50C&lpg=PP1&pg=PA21#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

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This seems pretty conclusive to me the punch goes around the back of his head.Thanks for settling it .

 

LOL! You can look at the film, photos, slow mo, and eye witness accounts. Ive never seen anyone try to dispute that this punch DIDNT land. It obviously doesnt land. VERY OBVIOUSLY. Talk about trying to fit the facts to suit your argument. You might as well be arguing that Sears Tower really isnt that tall :-(

And its actually 9 photos. First you say there was no film in the book, then you say you saw it and state it was only four frames. Have you even looked or have you just decided that the fight was legit and therefore feel no need to delve further.

 

Klompton ... what are your thoughts on the Johnson - Ketchel knockdown ?

 

Put it this way, it was a lot more legit than McGovern-Gans but I dont think it was legit either. It looks to me like Johnson is on his way to slipping when Ketchel misses his punch around the back of Johnson's head and Johnson basically takes advantage of it to make it look good for the cameras.

Someone in another thread tried to say Johnson was wobbled and basically falling around the ring when he knocked Ketchel out which is laughable. Anyone who watches the longest version of that fight can see Johnson is literally playing with Ketchel the entire fight and could end it whenever he wants. It was like man vs child. Johnson uses his size and strength to render Ketchel entirely ineffective and on the few occasions he actually opens up on Ketchel he ends up holding himself back at the moment he would drop or stop Ketchel and on a couple of occasions literally lifts Ketchel up like a child as Ketchel is on his way down. Ketchel could not have beaten Johnson with baseball bat.