My ten greatest heavyweights

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by edward morbius, Sep 12, 2011.


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  1. Squire

    Squire Let's Go Champ Full Member

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    Wow, an early 19th century heavyweight. This guy was made for the classic forum! Pretty cool that he'd also got Wlad in there and gives Lewis a high ranking
     
    Squire, Sep 19, 2011
    Squire, Sep 19, 2011
    #76
  2. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    The Tom Cribb pub is situated very close to Leicester Square, London.

    I've been in there a few times. Worth a visit for fans of boxing history.

    This content is protected



    This content is protected
     
    Unforgiven, Sep 19, 2011
    Unforgiven, Sep 19, 2011
    #77
  3. piscator

    piscator Member Full Member

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    Welcome Ed. Loved your post. You stated your criteria right up front. Most of us just bulldoze ahead and don't bother to state how we dreamed up our top ten.

    Just one question though: I believe I understand your first three criteria. But I'm not clear about the fourth one. How do you define "Historical impact?" What does the term mean to you?

    Would it, for instance, have something to do with Louis destroying the colour bar? Or the emergence of the Eastern European heavyweights after the iron curtain came down?

    I look forward to your reply.
     
    piscator, Sep 19, 2011
    piscator, Sep 19, 2011
    #78
  4. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Piscator--You might be giving me more credit than I deserve, as someone asked me to state my criteria. But I did have them in mind.

    You pretty much guessed what I meant by historical impact, but it is listed fourth and I consider it the least criteria as it is arbitrary. Some of what I mean:

    Cribb-greatest of the old bare-knuckle champions

    Sullivan-Transition figure betwee LPR and Queensberry eras, and marked point in which America started a century of dominance in heavyweight boxing.

    Jeffries-First modern dominant champion.

    Johnson-First to break the color line.

    Louis-fighter who destroyed the color line

    Marciano-only undefeated heavyweight champion under modern rules--will always be unique in the "fight the best out there" American era.

    Lewis-He appears to be the man who marked the end of the American era and the rise of the European era.

    Wlad Klitschko-marks the emergence of the Eastern European heavyweights, as you said.

    Dempsey and Ali-the most popular champions and the champions who forged the greatest legends, with the possible exceptions of Cribb way back when, and Sullivan. Their popularity helped spread boxing as a world sport. I think Dempsey should also be credited with introducing the aggressive, take no prisoners, get him before he gets you, style which really ignited a golden age of boxing popularity which lasted until at least Marciano's retirement. Ali managed to revitalize an at his time slipping sport with an opposite but also electric style.
     
    edward morbius, Sep 19, 2011
    edward morbius, Sep 19, 2011
    #79
  5. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Edward, Joe Louis in his 13 year reign ,was held in love and awe,easily as much as Ali, sans the rhetoric. Lest we forget...
     
    burt bienstock, Sep 19, 2011
    burt bienstock, Sep 19, 2011
    #80
  6. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Good point, Burt.
     
    edward morbius, Sep 19, 2011
    edward morbius, Sep 19, 2011
    #81
  7. Ravishing Rick

    Ravishing Rick $.02 *Soutside slugger* Full Member

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    NOBODY ever gives Sonny Liston his just due. Most remember..ali.

    Liston's best years were BEFORE he won the heavyweight title!
     
    Ravishing Rick, Sep 19, 2011
    Ravishing Rick, Sep 19, 2011
    #82
  8. Asterion

    Asterion Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    My list:

    1. Muhammad Ali
    2. Joe Louis
    3. Lennox Lewis
    4. Larry Holmes
    5. George Foreman
    6. Rocky Marciano
    7. Joe Frazier
    8. Evander Holyfield
    9. Wladimir Klitschko
    10. Sonny Liston
     
    Asterion, Sep 19, 2011
    Asterion, Sep 19, 2011
    #83
  9. Ravishing Rick

    Ravishing Rick $.02 *Soutside slugger* Full Member

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    Dempsey's popularity is great but how does he compare to a guy like Mike Tyson who like dempsey fought nobody special but was still able to have a 20 year career where he was the main attraction and command millions of dollars etc.
     
    Ravishing Rick, Sep 19, 2011
    Ravishing Rick, Sep 19, 2011
    #84
  10. Ravishing Rick

    Ravishing Rick $.02 *Soutside slugger* Full Member

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    Solid list. Lewis a little too high for me, but still solid fighters!

    Some people like Janitor favor pre 1970's fighters and refuse to face reality!
     
    Ravishing Rick, Sep 19, 2011
    Ravishing Rick, Sep 19, 2011
    #85
  11. piscator

    piscator Member Full Member

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    Just a thought, Edward. You rank, at least partly, on "historical impact". And in another post, you give Louis his due for breaking the colour bar. Should we also deduct points from Jeffries for being a flaming racist? Or should we deduct points from Liston or maybe Tyson for being less than exemplary citizens?
     
    piscator, Sep 22, 2011
    piscator, Sep 22, 2011
    #86
  12. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    A bold statement

    Janitor will not be found wanting in terms of consistency, when comparing the resumes of champions from different eras.

    Were they fighting the best challengers available?

    Were they consistently fighting challengers ranked in the top 10?

    What did these wins mean at the time?

    What have these fighters actually proved in the real world, as opposed to in fantasy fights?
     
    janitor, Sep 22, 2011
    janitor, Sep 22, 2011
    #87
  13. Ravishing Rick

    Ravishing Rick $.02 *Soutside slugger* Full Member

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    two tony galento wouldnt last a few rounds with Pinklon Thomas!
     
    Ravishing Rick, Sep 22, 2011
    Ravishing Rick, Sep 22, 2011
    #88
  14. piscator

    piscator Member Full Member

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    Oct 5, 2010
    Jim Jeffries. I keep running into that name on people's atg lists. I don't get it.

    After watching the video of the Jeffries - Johnson fight again, I read the newspaper headline describing the fight as "The Fight of the Century". I couldn't see how that could be after watching the video, so I went to the public library downtown. I was able, after exhaustive research, to determine conclusively that the typesetter of that headline was fired for criminal incompetence. He had inadvertently left out the critical words "Most Boring" from the headline. It should have read "The Most Boring Fight of the Century".

    No offense, Ed, but I always get upset when Jeffries is lauded as an ATG. Especially a Top Ten ATG. He only fought 23 times in his career for Christ's sake. Had a 19 -1 -2 record. Nearly got creamed by a 167 pound Fitzsimmons. Certainly didn't fight the best black fighters of the day.

    Watch a few of Joe Walcott's fights and I'm sure you will come to your senses and replace Jeffries' name with the name of Jersey Joe Walcott somewhere on your list.
     
    piscator, Sep 22, 2011
    piscator, Sep 22, 2011
    #89
  15. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Did you watch it straight after you watched your modern equivalent of this fight - Muhammed Ali v Larry Holmes?

    If so, then i recommend turning the colour down and rewatching it.
     
    Boilermaker, Sep 22, 2011
    Boilermaker, Sep 22, 2011
    #90
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