Joe Calzaghe's 46-0 vs Floyd Mayweather's 42-0

Notice how I debated with everyone but you. Just wasn't in the mood for your **** today. And Benoit On Roids, in case you didn't know, Olu thinks the only man who is 50-50 with Floyd is Ajose Olusegun.

And Olu, I would say you really don't have a clue. Kalambay is pretty much superior to Floyd in all departments, you are insane if you believe what you wrote on the matter.

 

**** who dosent read we have a troll folks

 

:shock:

I don't like your tone, Black2023.

 

You are the one who is obviously insane. I happen to be a fan of fellow African Sumbu Patrizio(as the Italians called him) Kalambay but to say he is better than Floyd in all departments shows your lack of knowledge of technical boxing. Kalambay was good but compared to Floyd please...!

 

I'll start by conceding that Floyd has far greater handspeed than the man we are both a fan of. This is what Sumbu has.

-More variety with his left hand
-Higher workrate with similar application to Floyd (lateral movement/countering)
-Equally impressive defensive radar; against far greater opposition.

Kalambay was a more rounded fighter,and beat far better fighters. My knowledge of 'technical boxing' is just fine IMO, surely you wouldn't argue that not many of Floyds opponents have been all that 'technical'? Kalambay may have had closer fights, but he also faced a smorgasbord of intelligent stylists, as well as aggressors and punchers. His skillset is more proven.

There is literally nothing that Floyd has done that can compare to Sumbu in the first McCallum fight. I personally had him winning the 2nd as well, though that is far, far close and competitive.

If you harp on about the Nunn fight it will show you are not up for a real discussion ;-)

Olu, one person I'd love to hear your views about: Ayub Kalule, I really dig him.

 

You talk **** all the time, pipe down.

 

Look you have to take all factors into account. I am glad that you concede PBF superior speed. I am not going to slag Kalambay off because that is unbecoming of an excellent fighter that he was. He gets full credit for his performances against the great Mike McCallum another excellent technical fighter.

I am not saying that all PBF's opponents have been as skilled or as technical as him. In fact a factor some people misunderstand is there there is a difference between being flashy and technical. Chavez was an excellent technical fighter but certainly not flash ditto Azumah Nelson.
I commend Floyd for beating the best of his era and displaying a very high level of skills, proficency and punch economy and versatility combined with his excellent and professional conditioning. A true professional and throwback. Personally I would love to go back in time to match him against the great and legendary fighters as that is pobably where he would have been really tested.

As for Nunn and Kalambay unfortunately I think it was one of those things and he got caught cold. it can happen.

I think Floyd fundamentals are better than Roy Jones who was a bit of freak physically as regards his speed, power and athletic ability though I think his technical limitations were exposed when age started robbing him of the assets.

Ayub Kalule was very tough and physically very strong but running into a peak Sugar Ray Leonard would be va problem for any fighter ever. No disgrace.

 

Olu, I agree with every single word of that post :good EDIT: Apart from Floyd beating the best of his era. Missing some real good names IMO. Apart from that we don't really seem to be disagreeing

Oh, and what do you think of Kalule, baby? :thumbsup

 

If you have less than 1000 posts, you officially know **** about boxing. Didn't you know?

 

There's far too much padding in Calzaghe's 45 names compared to Mayweather. Floyd has a much higher level depth in his opponents.

 

For me, Kalambay was better than Mayweather. That guy was outrageously skilled, the best slip-and-counter I've ever seen. He schooled Mike McCallum for crying out loud, McCallum probably the most gifted effortless puncher since Robinson.

Nunn was better than Mayweather, too. The smoothest, most flowing fighter I've seen was Nunn.

 

After a quick read, here's a reiteration of the posts that convey the most sense in this seemingly (unseemly) GF topic not all that far removed from their recent "Klitschko would beat Ali" themes ...

--------------------------------

Disregarding the superior aggregate athletic ability alone (i.e., a discernibly more complete package) - far far more credit is given to the athletes that move up multiple divisions (even if one wants to take the position that not every qualified and/or notable opponent was faced) than one who starves himself to stay in one place (especially at 168 and the title held there for the great majority of the "reign") with the sole exception of fighting two 40+ year olds 7 lbs north and then quickly retiring.

 

So, you're saying Floyd is greater than Monzon?

 

Disappointing. With so very many (very many) solid (regularly excellent) posts (covering so many fighters) to imagine that such a mere retort would be an adequate or sufficient response ... but perhaps you're also busy with too many unaddressed matters on your desk ...

Finding examples of fighters throughout history that have been laudable within a solitary weight class isn't much of an endeavor. Nor is it in any way an actual mitigation in these specific circumstances or of the points made by others in the posts I noted. You know well enough - in the case at hand - that such a response is barely worth a parry.

It isn't necessary to search for examples when circumstances and an abundance of specifics didn't allow for a move through multiple (or even 1 additional) weight classes as there are so many legitimate ones. Yet, merely acknowledging the historical ring gravitas of the original weight classifications should suffice to note that Monzon was at MW and LHW was a good trip away (not everyone can cross the distance and it isn't a negative reflection in the great majority of cases [of course, who wouldn't have been interested in seeing him reach for a shot at Foster, Conteh, etc. in a matchup at LHW]). Your familiarity with his career and of the comparatively short history of SMW should more than answer the rest.

Still, finding alternative and likely FAR better examples wouldn't be a problem for ya - but for what purpose?

Floyd is 5'8". He is in his mid-30s now so he has definitely left JWW behind as he gears up for a probable matchup with Manny at '47. But, I've run into him in the gym for the better part of the past twelve years on a weekly basis working out on the weights and running ball. He could have remained at 140 (though it would have been annoying as the spartan life was taking a real toll) if he was faced with a group of higher end athletes pursuing boxing at 147. He went up to a more historically important division (where SRL fought his old man) because he could. Just as RJJ went to the more prestigious 175 giving away some relative advantages to larger men - because he could. This is the complete opposite of starving oneself to stay in a lower division to insure your competition is relatively smaller or never larger. Not everyone fits into a weight class perfectly. But some are at the upper end and if they had the kind of talent some contend they do - they could have sacrificed being a large SMW (if there were no challenges or mountains left to climb) to become a small LHW. Some can do it and did it as you know.

Still, the general point stands. Far more credit is deserving when an athlete is willing to pit his skill even against the offsetting factor of giving away size. Similarly (if there was no diminution of the quality of athletes and/or numbers participating in the sport) more credit would be deserving for performing well at an advanced age against mature but discernibly younger athletes. Size and time are equalizers ...

If the timing of Ottke's career had enabled him to find a great fighter in his 40s around and he had struggled to a decision or two to cap off his undefeated career (even if he fought them at 175 for a belt) would we be attempting to compare his ring record of achievement to Floyd's?




[It's past 12:30 here in Vegas .. if I miss a response it will be due to the hour ....]

Cheers

 

You have to look at the each person's era. The missing name are Acelino Freitas AND Casamayor at Junior Lightweight but I am not convinced they wanted and Corrales performances against them who PBF destroyed is indicative.

At Lightweight you have to give full kudo's for him going straight to Castillo twice who was the best in the division.

At Junior Welterweight unfortuantely Tyzu great fighter was injured for his relative brief spell there. Hatton got the fight and full credit to him and Frank ******. I think PBF's later destruction of Hatton is commendable and credit worthy.

Now Bob Arum and the top rank fighters Cotto and Margarito. I don't believe he ducked them. In my opinion he would have put Margarito in particular in hospital. Anyway his beating of Mosley who destroyed Margarito is indicative.

As you know I love Miguel Cotto to death. I have always said if I had a son who boxed I would want him to go about his business the way Cotto does. I have that much admiration for Cotto however when I cold bloodedly analyse a fight I find it difficult to see him ever beating PBF.

Yes PBF can behave in a manner that is not endearing etc but he gets the job done as has lost very few rounds in his fights and career.

Flea you may not believe this but I actually appreciate your recognition of the legendary and old timers such as our debate about the merits of the great Nicarangua fighter Alexis Arguello and the great Azumah Nelson. However I do think we need to really dissect your views and appreciation of PBF. I actually think there is an issue that many opponents of his including highly ranked ones having not been able to live with him technically.