Did Dempsey take a dive?

It's a definite black mark on LaMotta's career. In the case of Pep and Dempsey, you don't actually have their admissions, so it's not as simple.

There are so many things you can criticize LaMotta for in his personal life though that you don't even want to bother.

 

true but i've seen more legit pro wrestling bouts than pep's dive. he was so great he had no idea how to act like he was losing.

 

Thanks, Burt, for posting the link to a good read. I always bookmark such links and will add this one. Always appreciate and enjoy reading your posts.

 

I dont think LaMotta is given a pass for taking a dive. For years and years he was a pariah because of it until Raging Bull came out. I think now people put it in its proper perspective and understand that he was basically forced into that situation. He was the number one contender for a long time, fighting very tough competition and getting continually passed over by inferior fighters to the point where he was actually having to stage and promote his own bouts. The only way he was ever going to get a title shot (which was well deserved) was by playing ball. When he got the title shot he made the most of it. So yeah, its a black mark, but its also understandable. I have his Kefauver testimony where he went public with the dive and you can see hes clearly miserable and embarrassed by it. On the flip side Ike Williams testifies as well and talks about how he was offered a boatload of money to throw a fight to Kid Gavilan. He refused, lost the fight legitimately, and made practically nothing for it. He ended that story by saying he wished now he had taken the dive...

 

Some of us here appreciate these brilliant gems of ringside witnesses of fights that happened so long ago. :good
I certainly respect first-hand accounts of fights, and the presence of the likes of yourself and John Garfield, who can remember going to the fights and gyms when Graziano, Marciano, Robinson et al. were there.

Don't mind klompton, he seems to be uncomfortable with actual living people and living history. Your memories and accounts seem to disturb him because he can't own them or view them (unlike microfiche and film). It's actually quite funny.

 

NO, he was caught and stopped early. His own brother threw in the towel.

 

Deja vu

 

I believe in his prime he was about 180-185 pounds.

 

About the rematch between Dempsey and Flynn:

1918-02-20 The Times-Picayune (New Orleans, LA) (page 5)
Views Of the News
by the Sporting Editor
--------
Who Took the Fire Out of Fireman Flynn?

Considerable adverse criticism has been showered on Jack Dempsey, his manager, Jack Curley, and on Tom Jones, manager of "Fireman" Jim Flynn, for the farcical match in which Dempsey stopped Flynn in the first round.

The fight took place last Thursday night at Camp Sheridan, near Chicago, but created an odor that would make the famous "something" which was rotten in Denmark smell like attar of roses. Chicago newspaper writers unleashed their pens. Here is what Sherman Duffy, writing for the Chicago Journal, says:

"Did he fall, or was he pushed?

"Boy, page Ali Baba and inquire about the forty thieves, to see if they were all at home last night.

"Anyhow, that grand old ruin, Jim Flynn, went down, and if some of the debris does not engulf Manager Tom Jones and Jack Curley, together with Matchmaker Kid Howard, there are more gullible boxing promoters than there are wise and intelligent ones.

"Flynn stepped out, took a few clouts and Manager Tom Jones threw in the sponge before the bout was two minutes old.

"The match was a farce. From its odor it is strongly reminiscent of the Gans-McGovern fiasco which stopped boxing in Chicago.

"Six out of seven fight critics here declare it the worst thing pulled off in the fight line in years."

 

Seems like both the Dempsey-Flynn affairs were farcical.

 

Except, that the second was proclaimed farcical immediately after it had taken place, while the 1st one - only 3 years later.

 

What reports of the first one do you have ?

 

http://senya13.blogspot.com/2010/05/1917-02-13-jack-dempsey-l-ko1-fireman.html

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=147209