Does a draw count as a title defense?

I'll have to rewatch it then, last time I had it 7-5 for lewis but it was a while since I watched it.

How do you view the hw scene in the early naughties then? In terms of who the best hw was?

 

I had it 7-5 for Lennox.

However, Old Holyfield deserves big credit for doing so well against a Peak Superheavy H2H machine, while 37 years old himself.

 

I think holyfield deserves credit for still being one of the top hw's right up until the byrd fight he was what top 3?

 

I think the talent was there in the 90s but for the most part the guys werent fighting each other. I think after Tyson went to Prison the clear #1 guy was Holyfield. I think during their trilogy he and Bowe traded that spot back and forth until Holyfield claimed it and held it until about 2000 or so (thats my opinion, I know a lot here wont agree with it). Obviously the three big players were Bowe, Lewis, and Holyfield with Tyson right in the mix after prison until the bite fight (I think even after the bite fight he was in the top 3 or 4 HWs but he spent so long rebuilding and being banned that we never got to see him prove it). I think Foreman was a freak show (and thats backed up by the fact that Arum admitted paying bribes to get unranked fighters ranked just so Foreman could defend against them). I think Moorer was lucky to get a mention (I thought he lost the first Holy fight, and had he we wouldnt have heard much from him again). Morrison was a borderline freak show (a white hope freak show, although he had some ability). You had guys like Mercer and Ruddock who could be very dangerous one night, and then look average the next. Even an old Tim Witherspoon could have been in the mix if he wasnt basically blacklisted. McCall and Bruno were two more who could look good at times and then implode. Yeah, I definately think the 90s had talent but I think the combination of mentally fragile fighters, warring promoters and networks, overprotection, bad decisions, and greedy negotiation tactics kept a lot of those guys from fighting each other at the right time (or at all) and made the era stagnate to a degree.

And for the record, I also agree that Holyfield was a top HW up until at least Byrd (I actually thought he did better against Byrd than most people did and that was an old Holy with an injured shoulder). Id say he was really finished at the top after Toney.

 

I add my yes,but there should always be an immediate rematch,providing the challenger wants one.

 

Do you think lewis overtook holy or do you think it went to ruiz then back again when they had that trilogy? I think holyfield won the third fight with ruiz.

I think he looked pretty bad against byrd however.

 

Yeah I think Lewis eventually overtook Holyfield (I dont really hold Lewis in very high regard though so that should be put out there). I thought Holyfield beat Ruiz at least 2 out of 3 if not all three but the fact that he struggled with Ruiz (who he would have stopped or dominated a few years earlier) really showed that Holyfield was now a spotty fighter who rather than being fairly consistent would now turn in an underwhelming performance, even in winning, at least as often as he turned in a good one.

Dont get me wrong, I didnt think Holyfield looked good against Byrd, but on the four points of scorings (ring generalship, effective aggression, defense, clean punching) I didnt really think Byrd was that much better than Holy. He was better to be sure, and at times Holy looked old, but Byrd was fighting a spoiling fight IMO I find it hard to score for fighters who spend so much time basically trying to make their opponent look bad, as opposed to trying to look good. I felt thats what Byrd was doing here. I also felt that the HBO crew was very VERY partial to Byrd in their commentary which may have affected a lot of peoples opinion. There were times when Holyfield was landing, or doing just as much as Byrd and the crew totally ignored his work.

 

The right result was met. In that the biggest market (the US PPV market), were still not sold on Lewis. An unlucky draw won him some fans, and made the fact the best Heavyweight in the World was not from the USA, that bit more palatable, when Lewis won the rematch.

It is something the Klitschko's could of learnt from. But to be fair, I simply think they are just interested in creaming off German monies, from Stadium fights, rather than PPV sales, American or otherwise.

 

I'm sorry but I think you're just trolling now because your posts are getting more and more ridiculous.

 

Yes because you have prevented your opponent from taking your title hence defended your title.

 

Nice way of looking at it :good

 

Is that not a bit of a corny one liner? Why not say "I have nothing to come back on"? It is only the Internet, your manhood is save!!!

Lewis was not particularly liked by anyone going into the Holyfield fight. Holyfield was the money fighter, so was always going to get the benefit of any doubt. Lewis was too negative, and quite frankly paid the price, as even the British judge only had it a draw...

Lewis won, but only just, and a draw, although a bad decision, was no robbery, and did not deserve the scrutiny it got. If you are going to waste tax payers money, why not start with a proper robbery, like Escalera/Everett?

 

I don't need nothing to come back on.

The decision was bad and that's all that matters.

If you wanna discuss which decision was worse go ahead and make a thread about it.

A draw is a valid defence providing it was legit. Holy's draw v lewis wasn't legitimate and it shouldn't be remembered he successfully defended his crown v lennox.

If your next post is going to be ridiculous again, don't bother and we'll just leave it here.

I've no time for people trying to justify poor judging. It should be a given that poor judging is considered, well, poor.

 

I have no issue with the judging. Everyone is entitled to bad day at the office (Williams), Larry was the British judge, (so nothing can be thrown around bias wise), and he had it a draw.

The fight was a draw, fair and square. Both fighters made good money in the rematch and boxing got top publicity for a while. Why the need to moan about that? For once in this sport, everything worked out well!

I charge you with being ridiculous to claim otherwise.

 

Why you bringing bias into it?

I've never claimed it was corrupt. I've claimed it was wrong.

You think a draw was fair; which 6 rounds did you feel holyfield won?

Lewis worked hard his career and when he finally got his shot it was taken from him. fortunately we did get a rematch but i'm sure that's only to the controversy.