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Why the Hell do we watch Floyd? One person knows the answer

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by demigawd, Oct 4, 2011.

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pejevan inmate No. 1363917 Full Member

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Bobby Heenan said: ↑

so true

if you go to a pac fan and say something like "pac is on performance ehancers"...they will note how manny n floyd were the same weight in their late teens...they will say "maybe floyds on em too"

basically manny has done the same things floyd has done...only later...except floyd beat actual champions at 147 and 154...and at the actual weight......

but bob arum has people believing that manny is doing things so extraordinary and impossible....all the meanwhile floyd is picking on small guys and cherrypicking...lol
Click to expand...

He said storylines!!!!

Not actual champions. He beat Oscar at 154!!!

pejevan, Oct 4, 2011

#16

Vidic Rest in Peace Manny Full Member

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I want to see him because he's an awesome boxer and I like to see his skills displayed.

I'm not too big a fan of 24/s or anything like that, this isn't wrestling. **** the backstories.

Vidic, Oct 4, 2011

#17

Bobby Heenan Boxing Addict Full Member

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pejevan said: ↑

He said storylines!!!!

Not actual champions. He beat Oscar at 154!!!
Click to expand...

whats your point in reguards to mine?

Bobby Heenan, Oct 4, 2011

#18
simon850 Boxing Addict Full Member

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Good read, Floyd is just as much a business man as he is a fighter.

simon850, Oct 4, 2011

#19

Exactabox Boxing Junkie Full Member

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I only watch as the world is more run by computers/robots it is great to see actual humans who still physically pick cherries. Go floyd you natural 147 pound cherry picker. Cherry picking is a story line as American as apple pie.

Exactabox, Oct 4, 2011

#20
Divi253 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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Good read and I agree to some extent.. Storylines are probably a big reason he has casuals watch his fights, but there's a large amount of boxing fans who watch him fight.. And it's not because of a storyline.

Divi253, Oct 4, 2011

#21
ai786 Active Member Full Member

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hopins v dawson won't break 250k

ai786, Oct 4, 2011

#22

sdsfinest22 Pound 4 Pound Full Member

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demigawd said: ↑

As some people here know, I often work in boxing circles, so I frequently run into trainers, promoters and other people in-the-know. I'm not a journalist, but when I like to have conversations with people and when something interesting comes up, I talk about it here.

I had an interesting conversation with a promoter (who shall remain nameless on condition of publishing the comments) yesterday and the topic of Floyd came up. I asked what the formula was for Floyd, given that on paper, he shouldn't be as popular as he is. Boxing isn't as popular as it used to be, Floyd doesn't have an exciting style, he doesn't have a strong ethnic following (african-americans aren't known for being avid boxing fans anymore), and he's lacks the charm, wit, or intimidating mystique that other popular boxers have had in the past. And yet he has broken multiple PPV records and continues to draw near-record numbers even in boxing diminished state. Why is it he's been able to do that while boxers of similar attributes like Roy Jones Jr, Bernard Hopkins, and James Toney struggled to achieve any modicum of fame or widespread appeal?

I was expecting the promoter to say something about his undefeated record, or his embracing the role of the brash villain everybody pays to see fail. He did mention those two, but it's the third thing that really got me thinking:

"With Floyd, some of it is the record and the villain role. A lot of it is targeting and getting fights against people who have a strong following, like Oscar, Hatton, and Gatti and getting noticed by the world. But mainly it's about the storyline. He's done a fantastic job of creating a storyline and selling it. He would fight people boxing insiders know have no chance against him, but he sold it in a way that the public ate it up."

"Think about some of his PPV fights. How the hell do you sell Baldomir? 'Pretty Risky'. He sold it as him finally taking a risk, and going up against a huge opponent, a middleweight champion who isn't really a middleweight and is only a partial champion. But people didn't know that. They were intrigued. Could this little kid go up in weight against a giant and win? He played up the 'risk' factor to the public, and they wanted to see if he could do it. Baldomir! A risk!"

"Judah always had a built-in following, but Floyd billed that as some type of mirror match against his "bigger version", even though Judah isn't really any bigger than Floyd. Again, people wanted to watch if Floyd could overcome someone he billed as his mirror image, except bigger. Anyone involved in boxing knew that Judah was in no way his equal and not even any bigger. But the public didn't realize that and bought it."

"I could go on and on about each of his fights, but all you have to do is look at it and you'll see the storylines he created for it. Even Ortiz with the 'young hungry lion' thing. He sold it to the public like he was some kind of old fighter in for the fight of his life against a huge, prime bear of an opponent. Ortiz mentioned wanting to fight Floyd when he was 9, and Floyd ran with it. People actually believed that Floyd might enter the ring a shot old man and wanted to be there when it happened."

"Compare that to some of the guys you mentioned. What storylines did Toney ever create? The potential was there for great storylines, but he never grabbed them and sold them to the general public. Even with Holyfield, it wasn't Toney's story, it was Holyfield's story. Toney needed to make it his."

"What storylines did Roy create? Until he went for the heavyweight title, he never created one. And by then, it was too late; he was as popular as he would ever become at that point. Ditto with Hopkins. He was always 'the other guy' in his fights and never created his own storylines until recently. But now that he learned how, he took a page out of Floyd's book, and look at the results now. People are overlooking what this PPV will sell, but I think it's going to be a surprising hit. My team estimates about 700,000 buys, which would be a major victory for Hopkins and would prove my point beautifully. Hopkins is selling the story beautifully"

"Having a national following or ethnic following helps, don't get me wrong. But the key to selling fights more than being Mexican or British or Filipino or whatever, is building the storyline. Let's look at Pacquiao for a second. He has an ethnic following, the media loves him, he gets to meet the President, lots of exposure everywhere. And yet he can never get over the hump and outsell Mayweather. Why not? Because he's never really sold us the storyline well. There was a storyline with Oscar, the David vs. Goliath angle, and that played really well. But what was the storyline with Hatton? The public doesn't care about 'going for another belt in a weight class' in this case because the public doesn't know what the hell 'junior welterweight' is. It's not a storyline that worked. He sold it entirely on the strength of the national followings. It did huge numbers but if he sold it like Floyd it would have been even bigger"

"What was the story for Cotto? For Clottey? For Margarito? They were all good opponents, and I think they're underestimated because they're seen as being far past their best or ineffective. But we saw them that way because there was no storyline to feed us to make us think different, like what Floyd did with Baldomir".

I point out to the promoter that Baldomir-Mayweather only did 700k buys, but he retorts, "It was a completely different situation. Floyd himself was still working his way to superstar status. There was no 24/7, no Face-Off, no Time Magazine covers or CNN segments like him and Pacquiao get now. The Floyd of today would have probably done a little over 1.1 million against Baldomir. It would have outsold Pacquiao-Clottey. I have no doubt about that"

"Nobody creates a storyline and sells it better than Floyd, and that's why Floyd manages to outsell Pacquiao even though Pacquiao is more popular than Floyd. If you wanna know how to make your boxer a superstar, and I hope Martinez and Gamboa and Ward are listening to this, Pacquiao isn't the blueprint, Floyd is".
Click to expand...

Nice post!:thumbsup

FLOYD BALDOMIR DID NOT DO 700K IN BUYS..IT DID 375K TO MY KNOWLEDGE:huh

sdsfinest22, Oct 4, 2011

#23
demigawd Boxing Addict Full Member

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sdsfinest22 said: ↑

Nice post!:thumbsup

FLOYD BALDOMIR DID NOT DO 700K IN BUYS..IT DID 375K TO MY KNOWLEDGE:huh
Click to expand...

You know, you're absolutely right. I didn't realize that at the time we had the conversation!

demigawd, Oct 4, 2011

#24
Count Pacula Cashweight Thrillionaire Full Member

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Don't fans make up the storylines themselves? Promoters just run with it. When I first heard about Floyd-Ortiz being signed, I immediately thought: "potentially rusty veteran vs. young lion." I didn't need a salesperson to convince me. I know promoters target the naive, casual fans. But I don't think people really need a storyline in order to line up Mayweather's pocket.

There's always some sort of storyline that comes with every fight:

Pac-Hatton (Two guys each with an entire country following them; Hatton's 2nd chance at a golden opportunity)
Pac-Cotto (Hard puncher vs. Big, hard puncher)
Pac-Clottey (Great offense vs. Great defense)
Pac-Marg (David and Goliath scenario)

A good storyline is just one of the many factors that sell a fight. I don't think there's an aspect that sticks out like a sore thumb. A casual fan told me he didn't know who Ortiz was before the Ortiz-Floyd fight. He just watched the fight because everyone else was tuned in and in his mind each Mayweather fight is different and one punch could be FMJ's downfall.

If it's anything that should be highlighted - it's the fact that everyone wants to be part of history - to be able to say they were there in person to witness Mayweather's FIRST LOSS.

Count Pacula, Oct 4, 2011

#25
kommieforniaglo Boxing Junkie Full Member

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demigawd said: ↑

As some people here know, I often work in boxing circles, so I frequently run into trainers, promoters and other people in-the-know. I'm not a journalist, but when I like to have conversations with people and when something interesting comes up, I talk about it here.

I had an interesting conversation with a promoter (who shall remain nameless on condition of publishing the comments) yesterday and the topic of Floyd came up. I asked what the formula was for Floyd, given that on paper, he shouldn't be as popular as he is. Boxing isn't as popular as it used to be, Floyd doesn't have an exciting style, he doesn't have a strong ethnic following (african-americans aren't known for being avid boxing fans anymore), and he's lacks the charm, wit, or intimidating mystique that other popular boxers have had in the past. And yet he has broken multiple PPV records and continues to draw near-record numbers even in boxing diminished state. Why is it he's been able to do that while boxers of similar attributes like Roy Jones Jr, Bernard Hopkins, and James Toney struggled to achieve any modicum of fame or widespread appeal?

I was expecting the promoter to say something about his undefeated record, or his embracing the role of the brash villain everybody pays to see fail. He did mention those two, but it's the third thing that really got me thinking:

"With Floyd, some of it is the record and the villain role. A lot of it is targeting and getting fights against people who have a strong following, like Oscar, Hatton, and Gatti and getting noticed by the world. But mainly it's about the storyline. He's done a fantastic job of creating a storyline and selling it. He would fight people boxing insiders know have no chance against him, but he sold it in a way that the public ate it up."

"Think about some of his PPV fights. How the hell do you sell Baldomir? 'Pretty Risky'. He sold it as him finally taking a risk, and going up against a huge opponent, a middleweight champion who isn't really a middleweight and is only a partial champion. But people didn't know that. They were intrigued. Could this little kid go up in weight against a giant and win? He played up the 'risk' factor to the public, and they wanted to see if he could do it. Baldomir! A risk!"

"Judah always had a built-in following, but Floyd billed that as some type of mirror match against his "bigger version", even though Judah isn't really any bigger than Floyd. Again, people wanted to watch if Floyd could overcome someone he billed as his mirror image, except bigger. Anyone involved in boxing knew that Judah was in no way his equal and not even any bigger. But the public didn't realize that and bought it."

"I could go on and on about each of his fights, but all you have to do is look at it and you'll see the storylines he created for it. Even Ortiz with the 'young hungry lion' thing. He sold it to the public like he was some kind of old fighter in for the fight of his life against a huge, prime bear of an opponent. Ortiz mentioned wanting to fight Floyd when he was 9, and Floyd ran with it. People actually believed that Floyd might enter the ring a shot old man and wanted to be there when it happened."

"Compare that to some of the guys you mentioned. What storylines did Toney ever create? The potential was there for great storylines, but he never grabbed them and sold them to the general public. Even with Holyfield, it wasn't Toney's story, it was Holyfield's story. Toney needed to make it his."

"What storylines did Roy create? Until he went for the heavyweight title, he never created one. And by then, it was too late; he was as popular as he would ever become at that point. Ditto with Hopkins. He was always 'the other guy' in his fights and never created his own storylines until recently. But now that he learned how, he took a page out of Floyd's book, and look at the results now. People are overlooking what this PPV will sell, but I think it's going to be a surprising hit. My team estimates about 700,000 buys, which would be a major victory for Hopkins and would prove my point beautifully. Hopkins is selling the story beautifully"

"Having a national following or ethnic following helps, don't get me wrong. But the key to selling fights more than being Mexican or British or Filipino or whatever, is building the storyline. Let's look at Pacquiao for a second. He has an ethnic following, the media loves him, he gets to meet the President, lots of exposure everywhere. And yet he can never get over the hump and outsell Mayweather. Why not? Because he's never really sold us the storyline well. There was a storyline with Oscar, the David vs. Goliath angle, and that played really well. But what was the storyline with Hatton? The public doesn't care about 'going for another belt in a weight class' in this case because the public doesn't know what the hell 'junior welterweight' is. It's not a storyline that worked. He sold it entirely on the strength of the national followings. It did huge numbers but if he sold it like Floyd it would have been even bigger"

"What was the story for Cotto? For Clottey? For Margarito? They were all good opponents, and I think they're underestimated because they're seen as being far past their best or ineffective. But we saw them that way because there was no storyline to feed us to make us think different, like what Floyd did with Baldomir".

I point out to the promoter that Baldomir-Mayweather only did 700k buys, but he retorts, "It was a completely different situation. Floyd himself was still working his way to superstar status. There was no 24/7, no Face-Off, no Time Magazine covers or CNN segments like him and Pacquiao get now. The Floyd of today would have probably done a little over 1.1 million against Baldomir. It would have outsold Pacquiao-Clottey. I have no doubt about that"

"Nobody creates a storyline and sells it better than Floyd, and that's why Floyd manages to outsell Pacquiao even though Pacquiao is more popular than Floyd. If you wanna know how to make your boxer a superstar, and I hope Martinez and Gamboa and Ward are listening to this, Pacquiao isn't the blueprint, Floyd is".
Click to expand...

makes sense

kommieforniaglo, Oct 4, 2011

#26

jeffjoiner Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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Good post. He does make it seem like he might lose (all while acting like he's going to win) in every bout. 24/7 plays right into his hands because HBO wants to drive up buys by making the fights look like 50/50 affairs. Hell, I nearly bought PBF vs. JMM after watching 24/7 and I KNEW that fight was a sham.

jeffjoiner, Oct 4, 2011

#27
SweetHome_Bama Loyal Member banned

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The guy you are talking to has a nice theory but it is flatly wrong.

Floyd is simply following the easiest playbook for the black athlete, which is be a brash loud mouth who isn't humble and flaunts his money, white will pay to see you "humbled" aka "put in proper place"

SweetHome_Bama, Oct 4, 2011

#28
Count Pacula Cashweight Thrillionaire Full Member

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SweetHome_Bama said: ↑

The guy you are talking to has a nice theory but it is flatly wrong.

Floyd is simply following the easiest playbook for the black athlete, which is be a brash loud mouth who isn't humble and flaunts his money, white will pay to see you "humbled" aka "put in proper place"
Click to expand...

If it was so easy like you mentioned, why aren't more people doing it? You're telling me some guys would rather take a risk and use steroids than take no risk at all and follow this easy playbook that you speak of? Bernard Hopkins threw down the Puerto Rican flag in front of a horde of Puerto Ricans and he still isn't a PPV star. Zab Judah was once one of the biggest bad boys of boxing and it didn't do him any good.

Count Pacula, Oct 4, 2011

#29
pejevan inmate No. 1363917 Full Member

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Bobby Heenan said: ↑

whats your point in reguards to mine?
Click to expand...

None.

This is not a Compare Gayweather and Pac thread!!!!!

pejevan, Oct 4, 2011

#30

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