Frank Bruno vs. George Foreman in 1991

Douglas knocked out Mike Tyson for World Title and got fat.

Coetzee decisioned Tillis and got fat.

Surely, you can see the difference in prestige.

And you can visit the thread in this very forum, but I don't think anybody picked Douglas as a top 5 for Holyfield despite the undisputed title being on the line.

 

I think thats a bit unfair. coetzee was nothing like the shape douglas was in when holyfeild beat him or for that matter the shape george foreman was during his entire comeback! coetzee never got into the fight because Bruno never let him.

cooney was looking for a fight? Not for a long time he wasnt! he came out of retirement to fight george.

 

Oh, get the **** out of here with that.

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Bert cooper was 41lb lighter than george and was coming off a KO loss to cruiser nate miller and big foot martin! he brought nothing! greg page and bey were nearer georges weight for one thing. bey was still "live" back then, david would give tyrell biggs life and death in his next fight and would have been too much of a risk for george. greg page was coming off a win over james broad in 1987 when bugner beat him. when did comeback george beat anyone like that? he was busy fighting bobby crabtree instead.

so would frank bruno and the rest of the top ten fighters. former LH moorer was on borowed time. It made for a nice story but george was lucky he bypassed all those real contenders and got there befere any of them.

 

all this shows is that even though he shaved his head, george didnt shave his armpits.

 

well alex stewart busted up foreman face pretty good so one never knows/ but i favor foremsn in this one / just because of that heavy ramrod jab/ tko 9 rds

 

perhaps. however, did old george ever KO a rated career heavyweight?

Comeback george's KO punch at world level was not effective against guys nearer his own size.

morrison, stewart, briggs, shultz, saverese, -they all saw the last bell - as well as big foot martin..so I just dont see how or why george should KO frank or any other genuine rated heavyweight.

 

But Carl Williams proved his was on the way up, Coetzee was clearly on the way down.

Coetzee was a good fighter, but after he finally won the WBA title (on his 3rd attempt) he declined. He came to London in 1986 mostly for the payday, he was out of shape, he was tired of boxing, and he was facing being shut out of the HW picture completely even if he had won because anti-apartheid momentum had gained ground and Don King had completely control of the division.

Your arguments to boost Coetzee and Bruno, and downgrade Foreman's achievements are gross double-standards, IMO.
Bruno spent his whole career knocking over the mediocrities and has-beens that you critcise Foreman for fighting.

 

Actually, it was a very similar situation.
There were doubts about Coetzee when he arrived in London acting like he was on a family holiday.
Then he weighed in about 12 - 15 pounds over his good fighting weight, and I think he chose to keep his T-shirt on to cover his blubbery torso. The odds on Bruno jumped favourably after that weigh-in.

The difference being Douglas was actually just 9 months removed from his career best performance when he faced Holyfield.
Coetzee hadn't looked like his former self for about 2 1/2 years.

 

To say Foreman didn't even beat gatekeepers is ridiculous too.
Foreman beat Adilson Rodrigues (who was still ranked top 10 by WBC), Alex Stewart and Pierre Coetzer* (who were both ranked top 12 or 13 by the rankings bodies). They were contenders or fringe contenders at least. He knocked out Michael Moorer, who was champion of the world.

*Pierre Coetzer is actually one of the best fighters Bruno ever beat too.

 

both old foreman and Bruno were so so at elite level, yet I dont see why old foreman is seen as so much better. A 1990 buster douglas would have schooled the pair of them.

Frank was more prepared to take on contenders but they wanted too much money to face him, when ever Bruno was in a position to face a champion it was always a better one than old foreman was willing to face.

Frank also had to face a lot of mediocrities but he still KOd gatekeepers like tillis, truth williams,jose ribalta, jesse ferguson and joe bugner who were within his size and good enough to expose a phoney contender. Frank was willing to face coetzee, mercer and smith in official world title eliminators and took on mccall, witherspoon, tyson and Lewis for actual titles.

Old foreman was also capable but targeted cruiserweight journeymen over credible HW gatekeepers and used his celebrity as much as anything to land title fights. He did not sign up for an eliminator because he never had to.
I think foreman would have struggled more with smith and mccall and would have fared much worse against witherspoon, Tyson and lewis.

 

Not so ridiculous. aldison rodrigues was a 45lb smaller fringe contender who had already been exposed by holyfeild. foreman equalled evanders result but aldison was only ever rated on account of a hometown SD over bones smith in brazil he may not have earned.

George made a mistake selecting 30lb lighter Alex Stewart, he did well to survive the MD but again, Stewart had found his level and was another fighter recently blown to smithereens by Tyson, holyfeild and moorer and never beat a rated fighter himself.

I did not include coetzer since both Bowe and bruno had already feasted on him with similar results eliminating him from contention. Foreman was the last of 3 elite fighters to KO the game 43lb lighter south African in 3 back to back beatings.

rodrigues and coetzer were not good enough to expose a phoney contender in the way truth wiliams who nearly beat morrison, jesse ferguson who beat mercer and joe bugner who had beat page still could around the time bruno KOd them.

 

This doesn't make sense to me.
You're boosting the likes of Tillis, Williams, Ribalta, Ferguson on Bruno's record ..... all past their best, old, or out of shape, or coming off rough results. (I'll make an exception for old Bugner, who had decent results).
But you're insisting that Rodrigues means nothing.

Off the top of my head, Tillis was coming off a loss to Mike Williams.
Carl Williams had been decked and outpointed by someone called Jones ? And stopped by Morrison.
Ribalta and Ferguson had lost to every name fighter around.

Stewart was 227 pounds, a big strong heavyweight, almost as big as Bruno.
You talk about Foreman fighting no one near his weight, but you also make a point of calling Foreman fat (which he was). I guess you'd be happy if he fought fatter fighters ?

Stewart was a decent fighter anyway. He gave Holyfield a hell of a fight.

Coetzer was 43 pounds lighter because he was in great shape. Foreman was fat.
Sure, Coetzer had lost to Bowe and Bruno before facing Foreman but he'd been very competitive with both of them.

 

^ This is just crazy.

Ferguson had lost to a completely shot Mike Dokes not long before. He'd lost to Bruce Seldon, Orlin Norris, an old Tony Tubbs, been blasted out by Bowe.
And he turned up in London 20 pounds heavier than he had been against Bowe, and 10 pounds heavier than he'd been for any other those other losses !

Williams was shot when Bruno fought him. He'd lost to some journeyman called Jones, and was clearly at the end of the road.

 

what name fighters did rodrigues, stewart and coetzer ever beat? I think we are barking up the same tree here. Bruno and old george could beat the same kind of fighters but frank always knocked them out.

coetzer was against a huge weight disadvantage and on a losing streak. Foreman did not take a title eliminator kind of fight against anyone serious.