How do you think jack johnson would have adjusted his game for the modern era?

I totally agree.:good
He would also have to be in better shape than he is here.

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Mmmmmmm. :think

 

:think

He did allright against this guy.

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You mean like James Toney had to be to compete with todays behemoths?

Better shape for the Klitchskos, obviously, because they are decent fighters, but i dont really see him needing to be in shape for the rest, and he would still be in better shape than most of them.

I am also not 100% convinced that many of the giant weightlifters would have a strength advantage over Johnson. Certainly the larger Jeffries didnt really have won, and i doubt many of the other larger fighters he fought did either.

 

There may be some truth in this.

Johnson was born in 1878. "Johnson was the child of slaves who had been freed during the Civil War. Raised in a penniless family, he had little schooling as a child and spent his teenage years working as a laborer on the docks of Galveston, Texas" (from BoxRec). In those days you didn't get fresh veggies or fruit in the wintertime. Come spring you just about had scurvy if you were the average guy. And Johnson's Mom and Dad are described as being penniless ex-slaves. So I have no doubt he was at times malnourished and sick without proper medical care.

If Johnson had been born in 1978 instead of 1878 and had the modern medical care, antibiotics, ate a better diet, etc. He would probably have really deserved the name "Galveston Giant". He might have been 6'6, 6'8"? Who knows.?

If such a 1978 model 6'6" Johnson had been transported to this day and age, and if he trained and was coached as the boxers are today, and truly had the hunger to fight, maybe nobody could beat him. But would he have had the hunger? There are lots of guys these days in the States who are as big as the Klits. But if you don't have the hunger.....

If he had come off the Galveston docks, poorly nourished, 6'1", 200 lbs and been transported magically to this day and age, he'd have to play in the cruiserweight ranks, and learn how to fight without continuously clinching and holding, because most refs wouldn't allow that.

 

Most good fighters and champions, can at one point or another beat a bigger fighter.. a smaller fighter... a swarmer... a rangy fighter.. a boxer type... what does beating a particular style at various pionts in your career prove to you Luf? Many fighters who weren't even champion can lay claim to such a thing. My question to you is this and very simple.. what ATG fighters did Louis beat and how many beat him? That is a big part of defining how great one would do in a h2h matchups... So.. how does Louis record look in this regard?

 

Very fair take on things luf and you get a thumbs up.. I pretty much agree but think he beats a few you don't. No harm there.

BTW I know Louis is your all time favorite fighter, or at the very least, you like him a lot. Don't take my question as meaning I don't think he is an all time great or not one of the best. In fact, I rate him no. 2 or 3 all time. I just don't think he was as good h2h as you think considering his performance against ATG's

 

After an early catchweight loss to Miguel Cotto, Johnson would enter his prime, and lose a disputed decision --some would say robbery -- to Bernard Hopkins (wearing a thong). Both Klitschkos would retire rather than face him, leading to a showdown between Johnson and Lucian Bute for the vacant heavyweight title. Johnson would clobber Bute, and then defend his crown for the first time against Sergio Martinez. Martinez would knock Johnson down, whereupon Johnson would stand up seconds later and KO Martinez.

By this time, the Klitschko brothers would have ballooned on McDonalds food to about 600 pounds each. They would shed all of this weight to redeem the honor of Eastern Europeans everywhere, but would neglect to train. Instead, they would spend most of their time on a modeling tour. The Klitschko brothers would enter the ring to the tune of "All Americans Look Alike To Me", and would lose. Humiliatingly. For the first time in the Klitschkos' entire careers, their opponent would have won the event. They would retire in disgrace.

Johnson would continue to defend the title for a couple years, and would balloon in weight himself. Finally, he would lose his title to a 7'9" Russian farmer.


...All things considered, I think it'd be pretty much the same as his actual title reign.

 

Okay then, so you're saying Baer, Braddock, Sharkey or Carnera would be considered ATG had Louis never existed? I can say, IMO I strongly disagree with that premise and conclusion. None of those fighters would be considered an ATG had Louis not dominated the division. Schmeling is borderline, but also is part of my contention, he best Louis. He is borderline ATG and he split with Louis, and certainly not when Louis was past it. The other borderline ATG was Conn, but as we know, he was much smaller than Louis and moving up to face him. We all know how how both fights turned out, but the first, and losing that badly before the KO, didn't convince me of much. The only other ATG's he faced... He split with Walcott.. you know, and I know Walcott won that first first. Virtually all sportswriters and people watching at ringside felt Walcott won. So, I consider that a split. Another ATG's he fought were Charles and Marciano and he lost both those convincingly. Sure, he was a little past his prime, but remember, he was favored in both bouts and was on a good winning streak before taking on Rocky. It wasn't as if he just came out of retirement and that was his first fight. I'm not questioning his skillset and you can't point to any post where I have. What I'm questioning is your assertion that he is the all time best h2h fighter beast that you are. I think if that were true, he would have a much better and dominate record against the other ATG he faced. He does not.

 

Jack Johnson after meeting Tua :

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I just wish we had film footage of Johnson before he won the title. If we could see him in action against the likes of McVea, Martin etc.. it might give us more insight on how he would do against modern day competition. My biggest question mark regarding Jack is how he would do against a big HW with a hard consistent jab who also throws combinations ala Holmes or Ali or Holyfield. Picking off single shots from a small man like Burns or Flynn or a bigger albeit washed up Jeffries doesn't give us a clear indication of how he would do against the aforementioned modern HW's. For the record I think he would be very competitive in any era though not as dominant as he was in his own. I think he certainly would have to make some adjustments to his style though. No radical shifts but a little tweaking here and there.