Controversial statements on boxing that you stand by...

Ill eat your children- Mike Tyson

 

I think you've missed the point of the thread. It's statements/opinions that you stand by, not controversial quotes by others.

Tyson never said that either. He said he wanted to eat Lennox Lewis's then non-existent children.

 

:rofl:rofl:rofl Genius

 

Yes, that was an era for Bantam where the lack of unifications really hampered it.

I would say your analysis of Zarate and Canizales is pretty damn good, on point, in fact, although I do think you're underestimating Zarate. What do you think of Zamora BTW? I imagine you're not a fan of his either. Not at all comparing him to any of the fighters mentioned of course, but does Zarates success against Zamora mean you would lean towards Zarate against guys who are willing to come straight at him and duke it out? Or are there any you think could gain the upper hand in a war of attrition with Zarate @ 118?

But I said Donaire vs Canizales, which is a much more intriguing stylistic clash for the reasons you posted ;-)

 

Should've been the man at both Fly and Bantam. Moved up from Fly to challenge ATG 118lber Rafael Herrera, and from the 11 rounds we have of the fight, I gave Herrera one. The next morning on the plane, the kids screamed at Herreras face, the swelling so bad even his own wife said he looked like a monster.

There's no other footage (I have a brief highlight of him against Saul Montana, who was no great shakes but has quite possibly the most intimidating level of opposition of all time) of him, but he appears a smart, tremendously strong beast. He was a horrible puncher as well, not only damaging Herrera that badly but causing ATG Fly Betulio Gonzalez opt out late in the fight.

A clever tank by all accounts, and the look of him against a brilliant Bantam in Herrera, where he shows he can set traps, he can counter, he can beat you up.

 

You have to keep in mind that although I've seen plenty of fights of Carlos Zarate, the same cannot be said for his opponents. I've seen nothing else from Rodolfo Martinez or Alfonso Zamora. I don't really know if they were as good as often said to be or whether or not they simply built up their records against ****-poor opposition. I can only really judge them on how they performed against Zarate respectively, and although Martinez enjoyed a lot of success, Zamora was bludgeoned in 4 rounds.

I try not to pretend to know too much about the Bantamweights, but I would favour the likes of Olivares and Jofre to beat Zarate. I don't think each fighter would come at Zarate in the manner Zamora did -- simply because I think those two had the qualities to do other things. Stand off and pick their shots. Counter. Set things up. Zamora looked incredibly crude, I thought. Jofre was quite similar in some ways to Zarate in how he approached his opponent, but I was far more impressed by him even in losing efforts. Fighting Harada would be a handful for Zarate..but he might walk onto one.

If you were going to try and impress someone with Zarate footage, what three fights would you show them?

 

This is high praise indeed. I'm embarassed to admit that I've never heard of the guy before tonight.

 

Hmmm....who is my target audience? Zamora, for sure, it works for casuals or hardcore fans. How am I trying to impress them? Because if I want to show them Zarate doing what he does best, breaking a guy down and battering them, I can pick a lot of fights. But I see what you're getting at, none of him looking really infallible, but for me he was by managing to smash it out with Zamora and not have his head somewhere in row Z!

To answer your question on Zamora, he reminds me of a mini-Cuevas. But the fact is, he was arguably the hardest hitter at the weight, I recently acquired him decimating Eusebio Pedroza which reaffirms it for me, he put his punches together well and had pretty fast hands. He was an Olympic Silver medallist, so not a complete caveman.

Don't forget that after Gomez it took a decade for him to lose inside the distance again. Against Gomez he had his legs under him when the towel was thrown in, he was just getting savaged, twatted on the deck as well Just walked off looking disappointed. Zarate would be a very hard guy to hurt, and as I say, outside of Martinez briefly buzzing him I can't remember him being shook pre-Gomez. Can you?

You should definitely give Rafael Herrera Vs Ruben Olivares I a watch if you haven't already. Definitely.

That era was stacked, but Chucho Castillo was alongside those two as well. Ace fighter.

What fights of Zarate have you got? I've seen about 10 of his fights but I have all of these (* next to what I recall definitely watching)

James Martinez
Joe Guevara (highlights)
Orlando Amores*
Jorge Torres
Cesar Deciga
Rodolfo Martinez*
Paul Ferreri*
Waruinge Nakayama*
Fernando Cabanella
Alfonso Zamora*
Danilo Batista*
Juan Fransisco Rodriguez
Alberto Davila*
Andres Hernandez
Emilio Hernandez
Wilfredo Gomez*
John Mensah Kpalongo*
Lupe Pintor*
Adam Garcia
Francis Childs
John Boyd
Jeff Fenech*
Daniel Zaragoza*

Anything you'd 'recommend' for me next? Maybe I'll come round to your views on Zarate, maybe I won't ;-)

 

Don't be, there's **** all on him. But I heard of his monsterous reputation on the Classic a few years back, and it looks to be all true.

"Thailand's challenger Venice Borkorsor gained the WBC flyweight championship from Betulio Gonzalez on a TKO at 2:10 of the 10th round Friday night when the Venezuelan refused to continue the fight. Gonzalez, who suffered extensive damage to the body and was bleeding from a cut on his cheek, complained to his corner that he was unable to stand on his feet as a result of the battering he took in the 7th, 8th and 9th rounds. Venice had Gonzalez at his mercy on the ropes at least three times." -United Press International

He also had a dominant decision win over Erbito Salavarria at Fly. But as I say, Herrera was ace, and even if you give Herrera the 4 missing rounds just in case the Thai has still won with relative ease.

 

What did you reckon to the finish? ... One of the oddest I've ever seen

 

Thanks for the insight. I assumed you were going to go with the Zamora fight. It's a very good showcase. He batters a previously unbeaten foe into submission pretty quickly. But like I said before, he doesn't really seem to lay these guys flat out like other renowned punches would. He was no Julian Jackson of the Bantamweight divison, put it that way.

I technically no longer own these fights considering I've just sent my Laptop off for repair. These are the fights I owned and watched though.

James Martinez
Joe Guevara
Orlando Amores
Jorge Torres
Cesar Deciga
Rodolfo Martinez
Paul Ferreri
Waruinge Nakayama
Fernando Cabanella
Alfonso Zamora
Danilo Batista
Juan Francisco Rodriguez

Admittedly, not all of them would have been watched in their entirety, but I saw more than enough to settle on the idea that the man had plenty of weaknesses that could be exploited by mobility and athleticism. Plenty of guys on the Classic Forum had refuted the notion that the man was one-paced, but he seems to throw his punches without any great enthusiasm. They don't seem too have that much pop, and yet the guys are hurt and sometimes dropped anyway. It's very bizzare. I mentioned Jofre earlier because I think he's similar, but he would suddenly explode with straight and accurate shots. There's no explosion with this guy. Am I making sense?

 

You're making perfect sense. Zarate just had hurtful hands.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but are you implying that maybe Zarate wasn't much of a puncher and maybe there was summat iffy about some of his wins?

His lack of enthusiasm can be accounted for by his supreme coolness when going about his work IMO :thumbsup

 

Nowhere else to put this, as I was just settling down to watch Rungvisai against Pong and Rojas(again:yep), I checked to see if he had a fight organised yet. He does:

NASHIRO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get THE **** in!

 

Quality, I understand he had an epic bout with Cazares. I ain't seen it, is it on YouTube?

 

Two epic bouts with Cazares to be precise. The second is on YouTube, not the first unfortunately.


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egJTW4idupI[/ame]


12th was ROTY in my opinion.


His fight with Rojas is on there too, which is another very good fight, despite the disparity stylewise between Rojas and Cazares. He guarantees good fights does Nashiro, just comes to have a brawl for the most part, and usually suceeds in getting one.

It'll be interesting to see how Suriyan deals with him, considering he dominated Rojas when Gusano attempted to box, but began to fall apart when Tomas got desperate and when on the front foot. Nashiro isn't as good as Rojas, but he's better at going to war, and Rungvisai isn't great in terms of evading opponents.

But you need a consistent jab to keep him held down though, something which Nobuo doesn't possess(nor does Cazares, who I think Rungvisai would dominate). Rojas was persistent with it, moving forwards and backwards, and Suriyan couldn't manuver himself away from it on the backfoot, I can't envisage him having the same difficulty with a guy who'll lead with left hooks and some flailing combinations.