What's the highest you can rank Ezzard Charles all time?

It's tough to differentiate guys once you reach a certain elite level of accomplishment because at the stage Charles is at, his only competition has unique achievements themselves. I don't know exactly where I want to rank him and how my top P4P list shakes out is something I'm never really sold on because of that, but he'd definitely be in my top 10 most of the time and I can easily see the case for higher.

I have a tough time trying to split hairs between Ezzard and Benny Leonard- different accomplishments, but both brilliant and have stood the test of time.

 

:rofl:rofl:rofl

 

I rank him at about 3-5, so 2 or even 1 isn't totally unreasonable.

It's easy to forget that he came very close to beating Marciano in their second match, and Marciano had to put in perhaps his best performance (at least as a swarmer) in their first match.

 

The fight with Ken Overlin was a draw, and it was in Cincinnati, which means Overlin probably deserved to win it.

That said, Ezzard is top 10 p4p I think. Wherever you put him in that list, you can't go wrong, because he's in the company of fighters difficult to separate talent-wise.

 

The highest he could be ranked is #3 of all time.

I personally rank him in as my #5.

 

I did a top 30 list the other day, but I'll have to send it over when I'm on the computer (on iPhone at the min). He was certainly in my top 30. He beat Charles, Moore, Burley, Maxim and Marshall. Fantastic record

I wrote an article on him which can be found here:

[url]http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=292042&page=59[/url]

About half way down page 59

By all means let me no what you think

 

Just found it

1. Harry Greb
2. Ray Robinson
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Sam Langford
5. Roberto Duran
6. Ezzard Charles
7. Bob Fitzsimmons
8. Ali
9. Willie Pep
10. Joe Gans
11. Joe Louis
12. Benny Leonard
13. Barney Ross
14. Archie Moore
15. Tony Canzoneri
16. Pernell Whitaker
17. Sugar Ray Leonard
18. Jimmy Wilde
19. Sandy Sadler
20. Marvin Hagler
21. Barbarous Joe Walcott
22. Tommy Hearns
23. Julio Cesar Chavez
24. Manny Pacquiao
25. Jimmy Bivins
26. Charley Burly
27. George Foreman
28. Roy Jones Junior
29. Carlos Monzon
30. Eder Jofre

These lists are never right, so let me have it

 

In Salvador Sanchez' defense it can be said , that despite his lack of longevity he was dominant against live opponents . His oldest opponents was d reigning , and later d former titlist Danny Lopez , aged 28 and Pat Cowdell , aged 28 as well and Roberto Castanon , aged 28 as well . Nicky Perez' date of birth isn't listed but he was pro 4 4 years when they fought and had quite a bad record along with Castanon , 2 exceptions in Sanchez' list of latest opponents .

 

:rofl Edna.

Anyway, its an interesting list, pretty solid.

 

atsch


I would blame the spell check but I think it was me just being slightly ******ed

But all means, if I'm missing someone let me no

 

Manzon?

There's just some weird omissions IMO. You have George Foreman in there? Bivins over Arguello, Napoles, LMR, McGovern, HARADA, Tunney, Gavilan, Carlos Ortiz, I don't see to be honest. Bivins was quality and in my top 100, but not this high. Foreman is in my top 5 Heavyweights, but doesn't have the resume to be up in the upper echelons.

Where is Jimmy McLarnin?! He can't be far off Canz' and Ross is any list IMO.

Then again I couldn't budge you on the merits of Tyson over Jersey Joe, nor convince you Elmer Ray isn't an ATG, so I doubt I'll have much luck here.

 

What stands out about Bivins was his reach. He is listed at 76 inches which is fairly long for a man only 5'9" tall, but his arm length seemed even more than that. It looked as if he could catch you from the other side of the ring which made him very awkward to fight.

He also seems to have declined quite a bit as far as timing and reflexes go from the 1943 film against Christoforidis to the 1950's fights against Moore, Charles and 'Doc' Williams. Don't know what was the cause, perhaps the years of hard fights and loss of motivation due to never getting the big paydays caught up to him. Seemed like he was content to go through the usual motions in winning or losing.

 

I can find serious knocks in any1's record , I can

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ranking Charles over Duran , Toney , Armstrong (barely) , Angott (I actually ranked him above Angott d last time) , Walker Smith Jr , Rocco Marchegiano , Arnold Cream , Barney Ross , Chris Byrd , Orlin Norris and of course more .


But how can 1 rank him over Oliver McCall ?
McCall's list of stoppages that matter is :
Lewis , Akiwande , Maskaev
While Charles' is :
Wright .
if u want 2 count Satterfield , Lesnevich (34 yo) , Oakland Billy Smith , Jimmy Bivins , Lloyd Marshall (7 years older than Charles and still stopped him in their 1st encounter and KDd him for a 9 count (long count , maybe ?) in d 2nd) , then count Seldon , Damiani & Darroll Wilson 4 Oliver McCall .
And while Charles surpasses McCall in the quantity and d quality of his distance wins , he was d bigger / fresher / both man in d majority of them , and he also got his share of losses in which , and in some of his wins as well he was hurt more than McCall was hurt in his worst losses .
McCall's lack of stoppage losses that matter is what makes him d superior fighter .
In a way Tua could have replaced McCall in this comparison .
If McCall fought Lewis , Bowe , Holyfield and d lesser titlists of d 90s and 80s a sufficient # of times (he did have his wins over Lewis , Akiwande , Holmes (old) , Seldon , Damiani , Maskaev) and SD losses 2 both Tucker & Norris and a competitive points loss to "Tokyo Douglas" and a loss 2 Bruno .
But Bowe stirred away from him 4 a good reason .
And while Charles' resume of wins might look a bit more impressive on a p4p basis , his resume of losses surely doesn't ...