Rocky Marciano vs Jack Dempsey

Not really. Moore was something like 22-1 with 21 KO's at HW around that time. Walcott dropped Louis 3 times in their 2 fights, I guess Louis must've been a bum. Walcott is clearly not just a great puncher but a top-notch, tricky fighter.

Charles gave him trouble in the early rounds, but was soundly defeated. So Simmons cuts him and now he's in danger of being TKOd? that's nonsense.

 

Ah, we can play the "bigger" argument only when its suits your agenda. Other instances I see you knock such thinking. I'll still entertain your question. Firpo was bigger, sure, but Dempsey was on the ground and out of the ring in that fight. Williard really didn't lay much glove on him. He dealt with Brennan fine, but so did Greb. I'm guessing Fulton didn't lay glove on him considering their fight went 23 seconds.

Now if we framed the question. Who took clearly took punches better. Clearly Marciano. You can't even find a frame with him rubbery legged. Moore's HW record is a fighter and puncher are better than Brennan and even Firpo (I guess debatable). Walcott had your idol Louis on the ground more than Marciano found the canvas in his career, which was less than 98% of all the HW champions. Yet those knockdowns he sustained from cute, tricky, trap-smith type fighters is the most scrutinized of knockdowns in HW boxing. What gives? Well it came from a 37 year old and a 40 year old LHW (Who was a good HW, let's not forget). Both known as great punchers at their weight and even on a P4P level (Especially Moore).


Yeah, Dempsey was down a lot against Surderling (Spelling) when the rules were to crowd and crush your opponent once his glove lifted off the canvas. But Firpo had him hurt & downed him. Tunney hurt him & dropped him. Flynn... well you know what happened there. Dempsey was a tough SOB that was one of the most resilient and vicious fighters even when hurt. But against Marciano that's going to work against him in my opinion.

 

No it's not. Marciano was on the canvas for a time of 6 seconds in his entire career. His durability is a renown quality of his. Dempsey was on the canvas more during his filmed fights, let alone his career. Forget the bigger guys. Tunney was hurting him & dropped him.

 

Bull****. There's hardly a discernible difference between their even-handedness as a puncher. All of you can call it a slant, Dempsey was on the floor more than a drunken sailor. I didn't even mention the Tunney fight. Tell me he punched better than Moore and Walcott too now.

Well now I'm 99% sure Marciano wins.

 

I'll admit, Dempsey might win under rules of his time. Still a big might.

 

Rocky by KO

 

Down more than a drunken sailor . So now your position is that Dempsey had a weak chin ?

 

No, just that it was overrated and clearly not as good as Rocky's.

 

Point one is that there is no doubt that among all the top tier heavyweights that Marciano fought the lightest group of punchers. Simply no question about it.

Point two is the Tunney fights proved Dempsey had a great chin. The man , past his own prime, was hit endlessly by an all time great fighter in his own prime, took it and kept coming back for more. This is a huge part of why he became a beloved legend after losing the title. An old man fighting a young man. Rocky made his legend as a young man fighting old men.

That being said I stand by my thought that it is a very interesting fight and anything could happen.

 

That is not how the drunken sailor reference reads. Whose chin was better is hard to say as Dempsey fought early in his career under much more unregulated conditions , fought much bigger men and much better punchers during his career and fought on past his prime while Rocky did not.

 

Pray tell me S, from the time that Jack Kearns became his manager,after the Jim Flynn debacle,how many times was Dempsey on the floor during his prime years.1918-23 ? The "glass chinned [to you] Dempsey, was dropped ONE time in the Firpo fight, when he was hurt and SHOVED out of the ring
by the ox-like Firpo. ONE TIME. In five years. And say what you want of the clumsy Firpo,he had a powerful right club of a hand. He didn't get the
nickname "Wild Bull of the Pampas" for nothing. In any event Dempsey flattened Firpo in the second round with the fastest one-two punch I have ever seen. And yes at the age of 32 Dempsey was floored with a quick right hand on the temple[his jaw was always protected] by a razor sharp ,
accurate punching prime Gene Tunney. So was Ali,twice. SO WHAT.
You bring up Joe Louis was floored several times by a peak Joe Walcott.
True, but this Joe Louis was THIRTY THREE years old,and a shell of his
sleek greatness. But Joe sure did the job in the second bout. Didn't he.?
Just as in baseball ,it doesn't really matter how many base hits a pitcher gives up, it is how many runs he allows to score. Dempsey as everyone in his time acknowledged had a very sturdy chin,combined with the mental toughness honed as a youth in the tough mining camps of Colorado and the old West. Tough, tough hombre ! Cheers...

 

They are going to beat the **** out of each other. Rocky would get the worse of it at first but ultimately turn the tide and take the late rounds to earn a close blood splattered decision that will see both men hospitialized.

 

Dempsey early...Marciano late. Jacks mantra was "The sooner the safer" and he would attack from the opening bell like Walcott did against Rocky in thier 1st fight. Marciano was a slow starter compared to Dempsey and that might be his undoing here. If Walcott hurt Rocky early and dropped him then I can see Jack doing the same as well. That's not a rap against Rocky's chin which was first class. Anyone can get caught cold and dropped. It's just that Dempsey liked to come out looking for the early kill...That was his MO if you will. If Rocky can survive Jack's early onslaught and drag this fight into the later rounds then his chances increase exponentially. Whatever the case may be I don't see this going past 7 or 8 rounds. These 2 will be all over each other from the get go with no letup. If Dempsey wins it's between rounds 1 and 3. If Rocky wins I see it happenenig around the 7th or 8th and neither one is the same after.

 

Sometimes you have to use superlatives to make a point, especially when Marciano is brought up (And his knockdowns alluded to). His knockdowns are some of the most overly critical & scrupulous knockdowns of any HW fighters. What I find most funny is when Walcott gets mentioned (As if it's a bad thing), since he floored Louis more times than Rocky was dropped in his career.

I don't think it's hard to say whose chin is better. You earlier said that Dempsey was a better two-handed puncher. Now that... that is a hard thing to differentiate them on. But you did, so again maybe I'm missing something. I doubt it.

He didn't face better fighters, nor punchers, though. Just bigger men. This has already been beaten to death. He also didn't fought too long past his prime, unlike Rocky. He just had so much inactivity during his lackluster title reign that he faded faster as a fighter. I suppose you could argue he fought longer past his prime because Rocky got a later start. And Dempsey being an explosive type fighter would fade quicker. You could also argue he fought past his prime longer because he fell INTO his decline so unknowingly, due to his inactivity. Again, that's Jack's fault anyway. I don't understand the past prime reference, anyway.

 

Not glass-chinned Burt. Just dentable.

Did Jack Kearns do something to Dempsey's chin? Are you suggesting his conditioning wasn't where it was or his defense improved? If his defense improved it reiterates my point. If we're going to treat Dempsey's KO loss like Pac's KO losses then fine. I don't see it that way.

Dempsey was dropped twice by Firpo from what I recall. The one knockdown was a shove, but that wasn't the only knockdown.