James Toney is the ****

Lost twice to Peter who lost twice to Wlad. Does he deserve a shot at the HW title? No! But I'd pay to see him fight one of the K-bros anyway :good

 

He should be criticised for his lack of discipline and self control, but he still had a great career despite of it. I mean, he had some losses he shouldn't have had because of this, but he also has some great great wins, that's what counts in the end.
Just think where he would stand today if he had the dedication of a Bernard Hopkins?

 

Look at it from this angle: he arguably did better against Sam Peter in their first fight (where he got robbed) than Wlad did against Sam Peter in their first fight. Watch these fights again and compare. IMO old fat Toney did better than big young Wlad.

As for him fighting the K-Bros: he's too old now to beat them. But the 2003 in shape version that beat Holyfield.. he would give the K-Bros lots of trouble. I'm not saying he would beat them, but he would give them more trouble than any of their recent opponents these past years.

 

But does he have enough great wins to put him in the top half of the ATG list, like some people are claiming?

No way.

 

James Toney a steroid cheat ? He must be the only person to ever get fatter on steroids !!

 

Toney is an old-school fighter with an old-school record. He has losses, but he fought often, and he faced nearly anybody of importance from MW to HW (EXCEPT for the K-Bros at HW).

By todays standards, he may not be a top half ATG. Because today it's more important to stay undefeated and fight the second-best opposition out there while being 'dominating'.

But a lot of old-timers who are considered top 50 ATGs, had their share of losses too, even some losses they shouldn't have had. Just like Toney. That's why he's a top50 ATG in my book.

 

It's not neccesarily the losses, although some of those definitely hurt him. It's the dearth of high quality wins after middleweight. He had that great five year run and then after the Jones loss he just seemed to tread water for big portions of his career.

The only top win after the Jones loss was Jirov.

 

Top 50-ish.

You just can't justify Toney in the upper bracket of the ATGs, for me.

 

I think Holyfield should be considered a good win too. I know Holy was past his best, but he was still considered a top 5 HW at the time - but more than the win in itself, it's the way Toney dominated him and stopped him. Nobody has ever done that since, no Oquendo, Ibragimov or Valuev, and very few have done better against Holyfield before.

Also his rollercoaster ride at HW should be taken into account. I mean he was a fat, rather old former MW moving up, he was doomed to fail, but he was at least competitive with the top of the division.

 

Why not?
Well, Duran and Toney are very comparable in terms of skills. They both showed that they can compete with much bigger men.

Only thing different is Duran had tat long reign as a lightweight and that is why he has a hogher ATG ranking.

But honestly, Toney's achievements as a heavyweight are underrated. Tell me one guy who coud that? Certainly not Hopkins or Jones or Calzaghe etc.

 

Agreed.

Maybe TOP 50 ATG at best but certainly not TOP 20.
But that will change if he beats Lebedev and Povetkin at 43!

 

I believe if Toney had had the dedication of a Bernard Hopkins, today he would rank above B-Hop no doubt.

To me, Hopkins is the greater fighter (thus higher in ATG rankings), because he's still at the top for so very long and didn't really lose a fight since the first Roy Jones fight in 1993.
But I think Toney (when at his A game) is the better fighter of the two. There's a difference between better and greater. Hopkins is a huge overachiever, while Toney is an underachiever.

 

SHOULD Toney beat Lebedev and Povetkin (a top5 CW and a top5 HW) at age 43, his ATG ranking would improve drastically.

BUT it's a looong way to go for James...

 

wasting your time man...75% of ESB knows james as a heavyweight...because they never saw his legendary impact one the middleweight and supermiddle in just a few years...fought all the damn time...and "good people" (sturm. chavez jr, other belt holders who are embarrassing today)

 

no its because most people know that even in his prime, toney was getting his ass kicked by the likes of dave tiberi and sanderline williams and was squeezing out life and death split decisions against sosa and johnson, as well as losing to griffin and thadzi.

most people can see straight through the fact that toney fans try desperately hard to hype up wins against eurobum jirov and against a barkley that had just had his ass kicked in one round v benn and then lost to a 38 year old lightweight.

then throw in the fact that he is a serial anabolic steroid cheat and a tap out ***** in the ufc, and its not hard to see why people see straight through the hype.

go check out toneys run of fights as super mid champ, its the most embarrassing run of opponents in boxing history, it's even worse than jones hbo run at 175.