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Hagler vs Jones

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by big_AL, Oct 14, 2011.

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Rob887 Boxing Addict Full Member

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Hagler

Rob887, Oct 14, 2011

#31

sal520 Member Full Member

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Marvin by late round TKO.

sal520, Oct 14, 2011

#32

klion22 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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atberry said: ↑

A 'green' Hopkins, Griffin, of course, and southpaws Harding and Tarver landed plenty on Jones. None are even in the league below Marvin Hagler.

Yes, Hagler would have to adjust to Jones' speed and outside game. I concede that he may not - but he doesn't have to! And that is the point. If he cannot master Jones' speed and timing, he can get close and bring it inside where Jones is extremely vulnerable and really has no answers. If Jones finds that his speed and reflexes are neutralized by Hagler at whatever distance and in whatever style Hagler chooses - he's done. Jones is the one who is not versatile here - not Hagler.

I understand these 'power, speed and reflexes' arguments, and they are convincing - but only if you minimize factors other than athleticism.
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The argument of those who are dazzled by the speed and power of Jones relies on things other than what makes real greatness - things like skill, quality of competition, and how a fighter reacts to real adversity. Hagler cannot match the handspeed of Jones, but in these categories - which I argue are more important in boxing - he trounces Jones. And that would make all the difference in the world in my book.
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Doesn't that mean RJ was more than just athleticism? He had the ability to use his athleticism the right way. RJ was a very smart fighter in the ring. Very aware and savvy. Not technically sound but he maximized his talents.

klion22, Oct 14, 2011

#33
klion22 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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atberry said: ↑

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Yes, Hagler would have to adjust to Jones' speed and outside game. I concede that he may not - but he doesn't have to! And that is the point. If he cannot master Jones' speed and timing, he can get close and bring it inside where Jones is extremely vulnerable and really has no answers. If Jones finds that his speed and reflexes are neutralized by Hagler at whatever distance and in whatever style Hagler chooses - he's done. Jones is the one who is not versatile here - not Hagler.

I understand these 'power, speed and reflexes' arguments, and they are convincing - but only if you minimize factors other than athleticism. Boxing is more a game of skill and intangibles than power and speed. If it wasn't, then other sports' athletes who have God-given talent would fare much better in the ring. The fact is that they don't.

The argument of those who are dazzled by the speed and power of Jones relies on things other than what makes real greatness - things like skill, quality of competition, and how a fighter reacts to real adversity. Hagler cannot match the handspeed of Jones, but in these categories - which I argue are more important in boxing - he trounces Jones. And that would make all the difference in the world in my book.
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Those guys aren't in Hagler's level but those guys were LHWs. Hagler was a MW. Jones would be the bigger man on fight night.

klion22, Oct 14, 2011

#34

klion22 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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I think Jones via UD. Speed kills. Hagler just doesn't have the foot speed to track down Jones. Jones would be in and out and Hagler would get frustrated. And you have to consider the difference in natural size also.

klion22, Oct 14, 2011

#35
Fan88 Well-Known Member Full Member

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Please. . .iron chinned, iron-willed fake southpaw Hagler embarasses a glass jawed athletic fighter with the first couple of big right hooks.

It doesnt go past the 4th.

Nobody doubts RJJs athletic gifts but he can't survive a brawl with Hagler and Hagler showed vs Hearns that he can turn a boxing match into a barroom brawl.

Fan88, Oct 14, 2011

#36
purephase Boxing Junkie Full Member

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atberry's been making some very good posts in this thread.

purephase, Oct 14, 2011

#37

bernie4366 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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atberry said: ↑

A 'green' Hopkins, Griffin, of course, and southpaws Harding and Tarver landed plenty on Jones. None are even in the league below Marvin Hagler.

Yes, Hagler would have to adjust to Jones' speed and outside game. I concede that he may not - but he doesn't have to! And that is the point. If he cannot master Jones' speed and timing, he can get close and bring it inside where Jones is extremely vulnerable and really has no answers. If Jones finds that his speed and reflexes are neutralized by Hagler at whatever distance and in whatever style Hagler chooses - he's done. Jones is the one who is not versatile here - not Hagler.

I understand these 'power, speed and reflexes' arguments, and they are convincing - but only if you minimize factors other than athleticism. Boxing is more a game of skill and intangibles than power and speed. If it wasn't, then other sports' athletes who have God-given talent would fare much better in the ring. The fact is that they don't.

The argument of those who are dazzled by the speed and power of Jones relies on things other than what makes real greatness - things like skill, quality of competition, and how a fighter reacts to real adversity. Hagler cannot match the handspeed of Jones, but in these categories - which I argue are more important in boxing - he trounces Jones. And that would make all the difference in the world in my book.
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Hopkins beats Hagler, and LHW Tarver crushes him. Get ****ing real. Does SRL beat a prime Hopkins? Does Duran take him the distance? **** no.

Hagler's the most overhyped fighter in the history of boxing outside of Billy Fox or maybe Aaron Pryor.

bernie4366, Oct 14, 2011

#38
bernie4366 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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Fan88 said: ↑

Please. . .iron chinned, iron-willed fake southpaw Hagler embarasses a glass jawed athletic fighter with the first couple of big right hooks.

It doesnt go past the 4th.

Nobody doubts RJJs athletic gifts but he can't survive a brawl with Hagler and Hagler showed vs Hearns that he can turn a boxing match into a barroom brawl.
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naaaah, the former HW champ and generally recognized greatest MW, SMW and LHW to ever live would NEVER be able to survive a brawl with Hagler. Just couldn't POSSIBLY happen.

bernie4366, Oct 14, 2011

#39
Rexrapper 1 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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I think Jones beats him without question.

Rexrapper 1, Oct 14, 2011

#40
smallsteps Member Full Member

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Jones beat Toney at smw and hopkins at middle weight.Thats great,I think Hagler would have taken Jones places he has never been before at that period of his career.Hagler would have beat toney and Hopkins as well I think,But great great fights they would be.

smallsteps, Oct 15, 2011

#41

CabbageGobbler Lucian Bute!!! Full Member

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I have to go with hagler prime for prime against most fighters at 160, except maybe prime Allan el atrash or vernal carroll. Now they would be some bouts.

CabbageGobbler, Oct 15, 2011

#42
Antigoon Well-Known Member Full Member

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I'll go with Roy on this one, although it's close.

Antigoon, Oct 15, 2011

#43
atberry Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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Robert Allen?

atberry, Oct 15, 2011

#44
atberry Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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Just watch Hagler's first defense against Fulgencio Obelmejias, who was 30-0 (28KOs). He was a tall rangy fighter with a great punch. Hagler starts off boxing him and it's quite an even fight. But then in the third or fourth round Hagler just turns into a pressure fighter. And it's one of the most relentless displays of intense pressure I've seen. He just doesn't stop, breaks him up and knocks him out.

Hagler has a bigger skeletal frame than Jones, just see how thin Roy's wrists and ankles are - he boxed as a BANTAMWEIGHT when he was 16, no ****! Hagler was a middleweight when he first laced 'em! I think Jones was abusing steroids in the early 90s.

atberry, Oct 15, 2011

#45

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