why so much love for lyle.....

You've got me. If he was as great as some people think, he would have beat an old Ali in '75. He was dangerous but only a good heavy.

 

Lyle's claim to fame is losing an entertaining brawl with Foreman, what was really a sub-par version of Foreman too.
The worse thing is Lyle actually could have won the fight had he stuck to a bit of boxing. Somehow he managed to fall apart at the seams all of a sudden against Ali too.
Quarry beat him quite clearly.
Young did too.

Lyle had a bad ass attitude, and a bad ass back story, but he came up short at the highest level. He did very well for someone who started boxing late.

Not sure why some people are favouring him over so many good hard-hitting champions.
I'd pick him over Frank Bruno and Tommy Morrison and Bruce Seldon, but he'd have a hard time with Mike Weaver and Tony Tubbs. A prime Pinklon Thomas probably beats him.
I reckon Ingemar Johansson and Floyd Patterson, and Tyson, and Marciano, ALL beat Ron Lyle. .

 

Ron was a good heavy who could have been even better,if he'd had more of an amateur base,before he turned pro.

I rate him at number eight in my top heavies of the 1970's list.

 

He went to prison, yo.


Plus, he lost to Ali and Foreman during the 70's. Instant career-booster.

 

I think most people who like Lyle feel this way...

He got better after the Quarry loss and would have been able to beat Quarry prime vs. prime.

He did very well vs. Ali and the fight was stopped too early... maybe he would have won by decision?

Combine that with what he actually did-

KO2 Buster Mathis, KO3 and W10 Larry Middleton, W10 and D10 Gregorio Peralta, KO3 Jose Luis Garcia, KO2 Juergen Blin, W12 Oscar Bonavena, W12 Jimmy Ellis, KO8 Boone Kirkman, KO6 Ernie Shavers, W12 Joe Bugner, W10 Scott LeDoux, etc.

Yes, he lost to Foreman but so did Norton and Frazier. He did much better vs. Foreman than they did... he dropped Foreman twice before being stopped in the 5th.

Those who like Lyle feel he ranks above Quarry (despite the loss) and behind Young, Norton, Frazier, Foreman, and Ali in the 70's golden era. Obviously, he'd be behind Holmes as well.

I don't really see Lyle getting overrated too much.

 

Quarry is the one who is overrated!

 

Truth be told, if we took away his galant losing effort to Foreman, i doubt he'd be remembered by most. He did compile some decent wins over Shavers, Bonavena, Mathis, and I think Bugner ( if I'm not mistaken. ) but for a challenger in the 1970's, his resume looks pretty ordinary by comparison to his peers.

 

Big Cat, Lyle, Tua, Ibeabuchi, Ruddock, Tucker, Mercer, Mavrovic...you know the type.

 

Quarry is overrated.
And I don't have the same faith in Ron Lyle that you do that he'd ever beat Quarry.

Quarry rates above Lyle for me. And Quarry wasn't anywhere near as good as believers in the "Golden era 70s Hws" reckon he was.

 

Ron lyle was a solid conteder but not a world beater. though he had entertaining battles he did not record any wins you would not expect from any other decent contender. He was a lot better than the other "bad ass" cleveland williams though.

in his prime Ron Lyle drew with gregario peralta and could not knock out a 1974 version of jimmy Ellis -had a split decisions with 8-10 wendle Newton and Joe bugner..would wendle newton beat frank bruno? what was lyles best win? beating shavers a year after bob stallings? shavers was knocked out 7 times it was not that great a fete.

 

Quarry being favored over Tua and Ruddock is perfectly reasonable and founded in proven ability.

Quarry being favored over Tyson and Lewis is nuts.

But really, I can't say I've ever seen the later situation on any boxing forum. So how exactly is Quarry overrated? Don't hate Quarry because he proved more than your paper heroes ever did.

 

He's often cited quite high among the "evidence" that the era was a magnificent Golden era of heavyweights.
(He's cited far more often than Jimmy Ellis or George Chuvalo actually. IMO, he was only marginally better than one, or maybe both, of those two. And he lost to them both.)
That's how he's overrated, for example.

:huh

 

-During their respective peaks, Ellis and Quarry are at a comparable level. Chuvalo isn't, more bad loses and not nearly as many good wins. He did beat Quarry...but really? Quarry screwed up a flash knockdown count after beating the man's face in. Common sense tells us who the better fighter was overall.

-Quarry proved he was level above the Lyle, Big Cat, and Ruddock types by making a career of exposing their lot. Quarry has the wins to back up his reputation, fighters like them often don't. Call me crazy but the Quarry critics generally seem to be fanboys of the fighters I name dropped earlier in this thread.

 

That's fair enough. I'd rate Quarry and Ellis about the same level too. More or less equal.
And Chuvalo slightly behind.

Now you mention it, I think Quarry might be a bit OVERRATED precisely because those "big bad hard-hittin' mofos" (Mac Foster/Earnie Shavers/Ron Lyle) were/are so overrated themselves. :good
So you're only half right, by my reckoning.

(To be fair to Cleveland Williams, he drew with Eddie Machen and went 1-1 with Ernie Terrell. I'm not at all convinced Jerry Quarry woulld beat him.)