where would joe louis figure in todays heavyweight division ?

Louis was actually a fairly normal sized heavyweight for the time, but you make it sound as if he was 30 or 40lbs heavier than his opponents. Bar a couple of smaller guys like Conn and Charles (and Marciano, but that was when Louis was totally shot and heavy) the vast majority of Louis' opponents were about the same size as him.

 

Exactly right. 6'2" 200 lbs with a 76 wingspan was the norm as it is now. I'm really puzzled at this weird attempt to protray Louis as a Lewis or Klitschko of his time. Certainly not the case, and I mention in my above post it was smaller fighters like Conn and Walcott that actually gave him the most trouble.

 

Why are people so obsessed with size? Yes it helps, but the small matter of skill still applies.

Just consider this;

Why do you think Sam Peter needed a generous decision to beat a 5ft 9, obese, past it, 40-year-old former middleweigt? This is the same Sam Peter who has been a top contender in this era and is considered amongst both Klit brothers best wins.

A flabby 6ft, 200lb Eddie Chambers beat 6ft 7 250lb Dimitrenko.

David Haye gave up 100lbs on Valuev and still won.

Ademek moved up from Lightheavy to get a title shot, beating much bigger men along the way.

Joe Louis would do just fine against todays heavyweights.

 

First off I am no boxing historian so I don't know everything about Max Baer.

Its mostly the Klitschkos that I am pretty confident he would not beat but I think he would struggle with some others 6'2 and 200 pounds is just a very small heavyweight these days.

I am not even that big of fan of the Klitschko's Its not like I think the likes of Louis, Dempsey, Marciano, Johnson would have beat Lennox Lewis either or a prime Bowe.

I don't have anything against the old time fighters but the fighters are bigger with high skill level compared to way back in time.

 

I have looked at boxrec and he was far more often then not the bigger boxer.

And if you look at Wladimirs boxrec you will see that he actually has been outweighed in fights more often then Louis was back in his day.

Louis very rarely was at a size disadvantage like just about every other great heavyweight.

 

Marciano, Holyfield, Langford, Patterson off the top of my head

 

Yes, but we are talking a few pounds. This size advantage did not really come into it for most of Louis' fights

 

Skill is important also, I don't think just size is enough. The skilled guys that Marciano beat were not bigger then him. Charles, Walcott, Moore were all about his size.

Holyfield has a losing record against big men with skill, 1 - 4 against Lewis and Bowe. Lewis was robbed in the first fight and if Bowe was more motivated he never would have lost.

Patterson was totally destroyed when he fought Sonny Liston twice, a big man with skill.

 

-I appreciate you coming clean about Baer. Most posters won't admit to making a mistake, though its most troubling you would simply state that to just discredit Louis. Am I having to make up such things to make my case?

-Than everybody outside of maybe three or four fighters is very small by today's standards. That language just doesn't add up.

-Bigger? No. Height and reach are roughly the same. Heavier on average to be sure, though you have to consider the added bulk to Haye and Adamek, as well as the spare tires Povetkin, Chambers, Arreola, and Chageav are packing.

Skill level? Eh..I have not seen a convincing argument yet.

 

Might want to look again. Against Ring Ranked Opponents. Wlad has only been outweighed by Tony Thompson, McCline, and Derrick Jefferson. On average, he has a considerable weight advantage.

Joe Louis was outweighed by Buddy Baer, Abe Simon, Arturo Godoy, Toney Galento, Tommy Far, Max Baer, Johnny Schkor, and Primo Carnera. He was also the same weight as Nova with less than two pounds between Braddock and Sharkey.


Considering non-ranked opponents. you see a similar pattern.

This is just fact checking btw. I hold nothing against Wlad for being bigger than all but three noteworthy opponents. A much younger Wlad was outweighed in some fights very early in his career but that's not the great fighter we are talking about. That's a kid cutting his teeth on push overs. And this is just weight, we are not talking wingspan and height.

 

I watch old fights and read boxing books I thought I heard or read Baer lost his enthusaism for fighting after he killed two boxers but I may be wrong. Like I said I am no boxing historian. I don't know all the facts by heart.

Boxers like the Klitschkos and Lewis and others may not look as skilled as Louis to you, although I am not so sure myself that he looked so much more skilled . Louis himself does not look that agile and nimble compared to some boxers 40 pounds lighter then him either.

 

-Never has been wrote that he was "washed up" at the time of the Louis fight.

-That has been speculated and he was said to be deeply sad about the death of Campbell which was a good three years before his breakout as a serious contender. Ernie actually died in the ring against Primo, though some accused Baer's punches. However, he remained a killer in the ring. He clowned sometimes but he always did that. Remember Campbell and even Earnie was before Baer's career apexed.

Regarding his fight with Galento, Baer tried very hard to hurt him and even said something like I tried to kill him, I wish I did. They hated each other.

-Actually my only comment on their skills was that I positively compared Vitali to the 30s technicians.

 

Joe Louis top 10 opponents that would actually outweigh Wlad and Vitali...

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