Jack Johnson vs. Jeffries in 1905

It is impossible to make a pick on this fight with any degree of certainty.

I think that the scenario that you have produced is favourable to Jeffries in many ways. He was at his absolute peak when he retired, and Johnson maybe still had a bit to develop. Also, as champion he could have dictated the terms of the fight to be favourable to himself.

Based on the problems that Johnson had with Hart, combined with Jeffries dictating the terms, I think that he could probably have got past Johnson at this stage. If I am right, then we can only conclude that he made a catastrophic error of judgment by not taking the fight.

 

It is highly unlikley that Johnson had anything to do with Jeffries retiring.

Johnson had just lost to Marvin Hart, and Jeffries could probably have defended the title for another year or more, without coming under any undue pressure to fight Johnson.

 

That is for sure ... he was a white man of his time and his arrogance was his undoing ... catastrophic is the word !

 

First off, Jeffries had not fought in close to six years. He had shed a ton of weight way too fast. Your assertion that he did not lose much strength from his physical prime six years earlier is illogical.

Secondly, Marvin Hart was all over Johnson. I'm sure Jack deserved the decision but there is no getting around the fact that a man much smaller, weaker and overall inferior to Jeffries gave Johnson twenty competitive rounds in a must win fight for Jack. BY every account Hart was the aggressor and landed hard and often. There is simply no getting around this fact. When facted with a decent sized man who was strong and aggressive Johnson was not so great ... a prime Jeffries was light years better in every way than the same Hart ...

 

he,I agree with your assertion that Jeffries without a fight in SIX YEARS, losing 60-90 pounds, and without a tune-up bout ,was Jim Jeffries in name ONLY. It is as you posted ludicrous, for some unthinking poster to claim" Jeffries did not lose much strength from his physical prime, 6 years earlier"
Nonsense...Who would have won if both were in their primes is a different matter....

 

Johnson would stop Jeffries,after shipping some punishment himself. Too fast for even a prime Jeffries.

 

I dunno...The film of Jeffries vs. Ruhlin, as grainy as it is, shows a much more mobile Jeffries than the one in Reno. He's on his toes and circling as opposed to the flat footed version that faced Johnson. Clearly he wasn't his old...or rather young self when he fought Johnson in 1910. Does this mean that Jim would win in 1905? Not necessarily but I'm sure he would've done alot better than he did in Reno. It's too bad he didn't fight Jack then because it probably would"ve been a helluva fight. Prime Jeffries was no joke. The one that came back and tried to take on a prime Johnson was. He clearly was nothing like his old self. He looked an older guy who lost weight because he had a wedding to go to in a few months and wanted to look good in a suit. Cosmetically he looked good but in athletic terms it just wasn't there anymore. Timing, relexes, strength and endurance just weren't at the level needed to take on a prime Johnson. 5 or 6 years earlier and it's a completely different story. Now we've got a fight on our hands!

 

With hindsight we know this would have been the first super fight (infact the actual fight was a super fight anyway!)

I can't pick a winner honestly, I think it's not a matter of how much jeffries had slipped because like pp said, peak johnson's better at everything (bar power).

By 05 johnson was at his best I believe and he retained this form for 5 years.

I pick johnson here.

 

Jeffries was barely wobbled in his prime. And in 05 Johnson could not stop Hart, let along get a decision over him. And Jeffries was considered the fastest heavyweight alive at the time.

 

Apart from the wildly inconsitant ,and erratic Ruhlin,and the 5'8" Sharkey which top opposition, in their prime did Jeffries face?
Jeffries reputation is built on retired ,comebacking old men,whom he outweighed by up to 47lbs.

The odds makers,Langford and Jeannette were dead wrong weren't they?
atsch
HOW ABOUT YOU GO BACK AND CORRECT ALL MY MISTAKES FROM THAT EARLIER POST?
THEN ADMIT TO THOSE YOU MADE, WHICH I POINTED OUT?

 

Obviously a new clown in town ... matter of minutes till he starts a Ron Lyle thread ...

 

Jeffries had nearly 18months to get into shape ,and lose 75lbs, he had a year of training ,conditioning and roadwork ,how long would you like him to have?
Jeffries announced he would fight Johnson in March 1909 this gave him 16 months to prepare ,[he had actually decided on the comeback several months earlier and was allready dieting].
Jeffries after announcing his comeback ,went on two ,back to back vaudeville /exhibition tours ,where he was onstage sparring and skipping rope almost nightly, he also engaged in over 30 exhibition matches.

 

I agree it could have baan a super fight but I simply don't see a Johnson would fought on even terms with heart surviving Jeffries ...