James Toney & Sven Ottke?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by bailey, Oct 23, 2011.


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  1. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Alot of people who have never even seen Ottke talk about robberies in fights they have never seen. Or comment on close fights which could have gone either way, but it seems many forget about how it was similar with Toney.

    Many feel Reid deserved the decision against Ottke
    Many feel Tiberi deserved the decision against Toney :oops:

    Ottke won a world title and beat a world champion in his 13th fight
    Toney beat a 11-8-0 fighter in his 13th fight and had just drawn with S Williams 24-11-0 in his 12th fight :lol:

    Now the fights which many felt were close or could have gone either way

    For Ottke -
    C Brewer 1
    C Brewer 2
    B Mitchell
    M Larsen
    R Reid

    For Toney-
    S Williams
    M Sosa
    R Johnson
    D Tiberi
    M McCallum 1
    M McCallum 2

    Dont try and talk about levels because other than McCallum there isnt a great deal of difference in the levels and even then it took Toney 3 attempts to clearly beat McCallum, when McCallum was coming off of clear losses to Tiozzo and Jones.

    Now lets look at the losses and draws
    Toney lost to -
    R Jones
    M Griffin who was a 14 fight novice
    M Griffin a 2nd time
    D Thadzi :patsch

    Toney drew with -
    S Williams
    M McCallum

    Ottke - 0 defeats, 0 draws
    Dont try and say G Johnson was a robbery, it wasnt. Johnson was out boxed. Watch the fight!


    So why do people go on about Ottke having close fights and try and ignore the fact that Toney had close fights???
     
    bailey, Oct 23, 2011
    bailey, Oct 23, 2011
    #1
  2. CASH_718

    CASH_718 "You ****ed Healy?" Full Member

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    No ****..... Reid got robbed way worse though the ref never warned Tiberi for hitting Toney and honestly the fight wasnt that big of a robbery that its made out to be. Reid vs Ottkee is.

    Ottke was a great amateur fighter while Toney if I'm not mistaken only had around 25 amateur fights. Clearly Ottke was a more seasoned boxer earlier in his career while Toney was learning on the job.


    Sosa if he was lucky won 3 rounds also got dropped how one judge seen him winning is a robbery. Johnson fight was close but clearly a Toney win anyone who seen it knows it and the first McCallum fight Toney was robbed he deserved that decision.


    Wanna talk robberies but dont mention that Toney arguably beat Griffin twice and was clearly robbed the second time? Lettermen scored the second fight I think 9-3 for Toney and one judge had it 11-1 for Griffin? Dont talk about that now do you?

    Not to mention Ottke gets killed by Jones and would get beat by a prime Griffin.

    No one ignores Toney's close fights but he also had great wins that Ottke wishes he had. Nunn>>>>>>>anyone on Ottke's resume.

    Toney is a legend of the sport while Ottke is a good fighter that became a joke with getting gifts and bias refs fight after fight and didnt even fight great fighters and "ruled" in a **** division.
     
    CASH_718, Oct 23, 2011
    CASH_718, Oct 23, 2011
    #2
  3. the cobra

    the cobra Awesomeizationism! Full Member

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    Didn't read it.

    Appropriate response: :lol:
     
    the cobra, Oct 23, 2011
    the cobra, Oct 23, 2011
    #3
  4. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    If you didnt read, dont post :patsch. You cant comment unless you do
     
    bailey, Oct 23, 2011
    bailey, Oct 23, 2011
    #4
  5. balaclava

    balaclava Guest

    you forget a few Ottke fights: Glen Johnson robbery, James Butler fight was close (scorecards were a joke)
    basically all Ottke did was run away in all his fights. and a lil bit of shoe shining
     
    balaclava, Oct 23, 2011
    balaclava, Oct 23, 2011
    #5
  6. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    bailey, Oct 23, 2011
    bailey, Oct 23, 2011
    #6
  7. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Johnson wasnt a robbery at all. Johnson was out boxed.
    As for running Ottke had a different style to Toney that many dont find attractive, but it was a style that also stopped him losing to fighters like Thadzi
     
    bailey, Oct 23, 2011
    bailey, Oct 23, 2011
    #7
  8. Arcane

    Arcane One More Time Full Member

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    Could have gone either way IMO I would give the edge to Toney but Toney was also quite inconsistent he could look fantastic sometimes but he also looked terrible sometimes aswell and if Montell Griffin could outbox him i'm sure Ottke could have managed it.
     
    Arcane, Oct 23, 2011
    Arcane, Oct 23, 2011
    #8
  9. Alien

    Alien Chin Scholar Full Member

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    Cold hard irrefutable fact. Something nuthuggers can't stomach.
     
    Alien, Oct 23, 2011
    Alien, Oct 23, 2011
    #9
  10. Cobra33

    Cobra33 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This is my problem:Ottke beat Johnson and it wasnt close.And he easily outboxed Butler.
     
    Cobra33, Oct 23, 2011
    Cobra33, Oct 23, 2011
    #10
  11. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Very good post. Honest.
    Toney could look fantastic when boxing, but just couldnt always win. Ottke didnt have the most crowd pleasing style but it was effective
     
    bailey, Oct 23, 2011
    bailey, Oct 23, 2011
    #11
  12. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Very true Alien. I have been reading through the hype to deliver cold hard facts, and as you note, some Nuthuggers can't stomach that
     
    bailey, Oct 23, 2011
    bailey, Oct 23, 2011
    #12
  13. horst

    horst Guest

    +1

    Would add: :dead
     
    horst, Oct 23, 2011
    horst, Oct 23, 2011
    #13
  14. general zod

    general zod World Champion Full Member

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    Please stop boxrecing
     
    general zod, Oct 23, 2011
    general zod, Oct 23, 2011
    #14
  15. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Most who post about Ottke havent seen him fight.
    I have been fortunate enough to watch both Toney and Ottke.
    You should post that to many of the people watching Youtube to see the fights and using Boxrec. If info needs correcting then do so, just dont try and bend the facts
     
    bailey, Oct 23, 2011
    bailey, Oct 23, 2011
    #15
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