Jack Johnson vs. Jeffries in 1905

So are you saying he had no strength at the start ? Because he lost the first 3 rounds,and only drew the 4th .If it was a pure matter of depleted stamina/ strength ,surely he would have performed reasonably well initially and, then faded?

Possibly because he was 38years old,[ 2 months off 39,] in the first stages of Parkinson's syndrome ,and had a major thyroid deficiency for which he had been misdiagnosed,also possibly because he had a long hard career, facing the biggest hitters the ring has seen , men who were real heavyweights, over 200lbs
Liston,Foreman,Shavers,Lyle,Frazier,Norton.

Jeffries had a comparatively easy career, true he was carved up by Fitz and Choynski , but both were 167lbs.

Jeffries had 22 fights when he went in with Johnson, he had boxed 200 rounds, and he had a year and a half to prepare for the fight.

Jeffries had stretched 18 fights over 10 years.

Ali had 54 fights over 2 decades.3 wars with Norton, 3 wars with Frazier, he absorbed a tremendous amount of punishment in those ,now include the Foreman fight,and these punishing fights were after his prime.

There was negligible mileage on Jeffries clock.

Ali took more punishment in sparring than Jeffries in several of his fights.
Ali had 520 rounds of wear and tear on his body when he fought Holmes.

I think this may have had something to do with Ali's non performance against a 6'3" 212 lbs heavyweight Champion who is in my top 5 of all time.
What say you?

 

In this link ,reporter Bill Slattery tries to assess Jeffries chances.

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/l...IGHTERS+READY+RESTING+EVE+GREATEST+RNG+BATTLE


The link below concentrates on the wind up of their training and Johnson's rise to prominence. It also gives an overview of Jeffries fights with Corbett, stating Corbett won the vast majority of the first twenty rounds in their intial contest, and Jeffries corner told him he needed a ko to win

It states Jeffries won their second fight without too much difficulty. The second fight with Fitz is covered ,and the amount of punishment Jeffries abosrbed before he kod the 39 year old Fitz.
Interestingly, it also gives the gate receipts for some of Jeffries fights and a number of others.

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/l...FFRIES+JOHNSON+WINDING+UP+THEIR+DAYS+TRAINING

 

Hey, now you're sounding like me. Agreed on all points.

He was a giant in a time that Tom Sharkey was referred to as being a big man, when the Galveston Giant was all of 6 foot 1 and 190 pounds at the time of his christening....

 

Uh Oh ,I'm in trouble.
Seriously ,would Jeffries be able to manhandle guys like Louis [,who picked Carnera up bodily at one point?]
Liston, Foreman, Ali, Holyfield, [who backed Tyson up].
Sharkey was a pocket battleship , but he was 5'8" and around 180lbs. I'm 63 in a month , when I was a kid, if a man was 6 foot tall it was remarked upon.
All of my sons in law are bigger than Jeffries was , he would be a small heavy today.


Jim Coffey seen below 6' 1", never over 208lbs
Called the " Roscommon Giant"

This content is protected

 

No I clearly said he lost the opening rounds because he did not have a fight in six years and at age 35 his timing and speed were **** in addition to his overall deterioration. Are you claiming his extended retirement compounded by a joke of a training camp where hunted daily but rarely sparred properly prepared him to fight a prime Johnson? Let's not be absurd.

I stand by my position that Jeffries was as poorly prepared for Johnson as Ali was for Holmes. While your pushing your subjective math dont forget 13 and 72 ... the number of months Ali and Jeffries were out of the ring between their title bouts.

 

I'm not pushing anything ,I told you that in my view Ali was a sick man when he fought Holmes and medical reports confirm that.
Anything wrong with Jeffries, apart from inactivity?

Jeffries two major fights were over men who had been retired for 2 years and 3 years,one was33/36 , the other 37/39.
Another win was over a 37 years old , tubercular and ,alcoholic man who had been retired for 3 years and had one fight in 6 years [Jackson] another was over a man 40 years old [Goddard].

Reno was a classic case of ;

THE BITER BIT.

 

Johnson was never walked back or pushed around in his other filmed fights. This just goes to show this tactic would not work vs. bigger and stronger men. It only worked vs the smallish stationary type of fighters that Johnson often hand picked for his title matches. Johnson beat the shell of Jim Jeffries who lost close to 100 pounds, and had not fought a round in 5 years. Those who have the film of the rounds will tell you many of them were close. The only flimed rounds that are one sided on the flims are the 14th when Jeffries ran out of gas and could not keep his hands up, and the 15th.

In 1905, the winner would have been Jeffries.

 

Jeffries in 1910 was probably weakened a bit by his weight loss, and generally out of condition. He was still likely very strong though, on pure physical strength.
And Johnson probably peaked in physical strength in 1909 an 1910.

In 1905 Jeff would be a bit stronger, and Johnson was not yet as strong.


I think any decent sized heavyweight was called a "giant" in those days. It was hype and language of the day. Remember, anyone over 158 pounds was a heavyweight.
It's not that people were that much smaller in those days. They just liked to hype up the legit full sized heavyweights. It is remarkable when a man fights as well as being big, and old-time writers and promoters made a big thing out of it. Crowds would be drawn to see big men fighting.

 

Johnson was not pushed around in the Reno fight, quite the opposite he put Jeffries arms up his back at one point and called out to Corbett ,"where do you want him?"
Are you saying ALL the ringside reports of the fight are false/inaccurate/lying? I have only posted a few, there are several more ,all concurring with them .
Since 99% of the public,and media were rooting for Jeffries, surely reporters would put as favourable a gloss on Jeffries performance ,and,give him the benefit of the doubt in closely contested rounds?

Johnson fought far more big men than Jeffries who only faced ONE man of 200lbs

Many of the rounds were not close at all ,as film and reports emphatically tell us ,the only poster who propagates this canard is yourself.

Tex Rickard ,who worshipped Jeffries told a reporter from the New York Tribune immediately the fight was over.

"Jack Johnson is the most wonderful fighter that ever pulled on a glove, he won as he pleased from Jeffries.And was never in danger.
I could not help but feel sorry for the big whiteman as he fell before the champions blows.
It was the most pitiable sight I ever saw.
As a matter of fact,I thought Jeffries would be the winner of the fight."


"Jeffries could not hit Johnson,and Johnson could hit Jeffries whenever he pleased" .
Rickard as the referee ,was closest to the action ,but you continue in denial, its become a habit with you now.
CASE CLOSED , NEXT!

 

I think it's worth noting that Ketchell, who was in Jeff's camp, thought so little of Jeff's shape and fighting form that he threatened to KO Jim during the ring introductions so as to save the White Race the disgrace who knew was coming.

 

Either your a clown or English is not your first language ... either way, reading your distortions are a bit of a bore. Perhaps you can back up yet another false claim by detailing where I made this statement ...

I personally believe your a clown under a false name simply trying to stir a pot .. no surprise actually. :yep

 

All that's wonderful and meaningless ... we're talking about Johnson and Jefferies ... I happen to love Johnson . I just don't have the same rose colored glasses you do for the guy .. It is the same old run where guys cannot look at their favorites warts and all ... to try and build a case that a professional prize fighter who had been out of the ring for six years and returns in his mid-30's is as strong as he was in his prime is a joke. Kaput (LOL) makinging this case is understandable as he's simply a regular under an alias attempting to stir a pot ( and basically getting only yawns) but you're a knowledgable guy and know better ...