Jack Johnson vs. Jeffries in 1905

Jeffries was ripped in 1910. A 6'2 227lb 35 year old fighter. With his size and strength, he still would have whupped up on most of those 165-180lb fighters in 1910. This is a fair win for Jack Johnson, especially the manner in which he so easily dominated him.

 

It wasn't a pose-off; it was a boxing match. Jeffries had not trained other than to look fit. He was using the same old crew of hasbeens to spar with and was ducking the media in order to not let it be known he was shot. Eyewitnesses said he was shot, his reflexes and speed gone. And with age and the strain of yo-yo weight gain/loss, his stamina could not have been what it had been 5 years earlier.

Even Johnson knew Jeffries was shot and said so. Johnson did what he had to and took out Jeffries. But although it was not his fault, it's not that great of a victory to beat a has been who didn't properly prepare for the contest, nor really believed he could win the contest if it was played on an even field.

 

The arm thing is on film for 2 seconds. Big deal. When Jeffires had stamina, he was pushing Johnson backwards for the most part. Watch the films!!! Oh right, you don't. You simply latch on to a few select books where the passages suit your interests.

This is BS. Many reports called it like it was. Besides if you watch the films you will see there wasn't much to separate them at all in the early rounds. In fact you have posted before that Jeffries was the better in the first four rounds based on aggression.

Wrong again! Only faced one man of 200 lbs you say? You never learn. Ruhlin was 200, Munroe was 210, and Johnson himself was over 200. You really are a stupid person, I have told you this multiple times. In fact you agree with me on Munroe after I showed you the newspapers.

And Rickard also said what he would not give to see the real Jeffries tackle Johnson. Most people including several black fighters like Jeanette, Mcvey and Langford felt Jeffries would win. Of course they assumed he could return, which was not the case. If you read some news such as the Chicago press, they say Johnson was hurt with body shots in round 10 I think, but Jeffries was too tried and slow to follow up.

You waste my time, I should simply let others call out your math and agenda here. In fact some already have in this thread.

 

A picture perfect text book example of someone that is clueless. Could not have been laid out better. Kaplunk (LOL) !

 

McVey, I tend to like your posts but you are so off on this topic it's sad ... you're actually trying to justify Jeffries s being in condition to fight a prime Johnson ? IF you are serious how can your defenses of JOhnson be taken serious ? There is no real objectivity. IT's like SQ/Listonjab on Marciano ... there is enough to build up Johnson's credentials on than to diminish your credibility with this route ...

 

And Ali weighted 217 for Holmes including the dye in his hair ...

 

TGA, we at ESB truly have no clear visual film of the young powerful Jim Jeffries,who became HW champion in 1899, after just 12 fights. We today
can only hazard a guess as to Jeffries prowess,when young. He was truly a shell of himself in 1910 ,when after retiring from the ring for SIX HOGFAT YEARS,he foolishly fought a sharp great Jack Johnson,without a tune-up bout.Dumb move for his legacy. Would he have beaten Jack Johnson in their primes ? Who can say, but Nat Fleischer chose Jack Johnson as the best HW, Fleischer ever saw,for what it's worth... Cheers...

 

he, was it Just For Men ?

 

You are entirely wrong I find Johnson a boring performer I prefer to watch Dempsey. Ali Louis, Tyson ,just about any class heavy champion other than Johnson.
But I do like the truth, and ****s like Mendoza wish to distort it to make it fit their own hero worship of Jeffries agenda.
You are willfully missing the point yet again,and arguing against a case that I have not put.
I have never stated Jeffries was the same man he had been in 1904 [his last fight.]
I have never stated a fight between both men in their primes would be anything less than a titanic struggle.
I simply say that a man of 35, having nearly 18months to train, should be able to mount a reasonable offence for the initial rounds ,before his lack of stamina and his strength erodes.
The fact that Jeffries could not, makes me wonder if A. when faced with a man of near equal stature ,who was not 10 -15 years older, he was matched if not surpassed , for strength.
B. His much talked strength which we have seen demonstrated against precisely NO-ONE, and have no reports of him using it on any opponent, was not vastly exaggerated?

Take a close look at the men Jeffries beat ,weigh up their physical attributes, their ages , and, at what stage of their respective careers he fought them,then tell me his strength is not unproven against men his own size and age.


Put him in the ring today with men his size, and bigger would he be stronger than his opponents ?

 

Go back through my posts and you will see my position on this fight .
I state categorically Jeffries was a shell of the fighter he had been.
A mere facsimile.
All I have said is Jeffries lost 75lbs in weight NOT 100LBS,he began his preparation for the fight nearly 18months before it,NOT A YEAR,that is not showing a lack of objectivity,it is showing a respect for the truth.

The issue being argued seems to have focused on , how much stamina ,and strength could Jeffries be expected to retain in the early rounds? I have simply pointed out he lost those rounds , as well as virtually all the rest.


I am not responsible for your opinion of me and, quite frankly, I think I will still manage to sleep tonight, what ever the verdict.

 

LIke everybody else I have seen the fight ,many ,many times.

I have NEVER stated that Jeffries won the first 4 rounds.

I have not "simply latched on to a few select books where passages suit my interests."
I have provided primary source ,ringside reports taken the day of the fight in Reno ,and not one, but several, they are unanimous in concurring that Jeffries was not in the fight, something the referee has reiterated,stating , "Johnson won as he pleased" .

Munroe scaled 190lbs for a fight with Peter Maher 3 months prior to challenging Jeffries for the title ,this leads me to the logical conclusion that the 186lbs that Boxrec has for Munroe in the Jeffries fight is correct,one would expect him to lose weight in training for the fight of his life , not gain 20lbs, which he would have to have done if your figure of 210lbs is correct.
The only reason you are sticking to this is because of the paucity of opponents for Jeffries that were around the 200lbs mark ,[one in fact Ruhlin].


I would have thought everyone [even a thick **** like you] ,would have taken it as a given ,that I was talking about Jeffries career pre -Johnson.atsch
The fact that Rickard said he would have liked to see Johnson and Jeffries fight in their primes means what exactly?


I would hazard a guess and say that goes for the whole of this forum.

While we are on the subject,whose fault is it do you think, that this match never materialised?

The fact that Langford and Jeannette, both of whom hated Johnson ,picked Jeffries to win means what ,apart from the fact that they were dead wrong?

I have never seen a quote from Mcvey, picking Jeffries to win ,please provide a primary source for it.

THE TENTH ROUND?

This would be the round that Johnson landed three consecutive hard shots to Jeffries face ,causing him to cry out audibly" OH", loud enough for ringsiders to hear?

The round that Johnson took emphatically ,according to all papers?

Here is an extract from a ringside reporter employed by the" San Francisco Call ".. Headlined.

"JEFFRIES LACK OF SKILL HELPED JOHNSON WIN"

" The fourth round found Johnson showing his superb skill in blocking.
He constantly baffled Jeff who was leading, and occasionally countered him on the face.
About the middle of the round Jeff got home witha light wallop,that brought the blood to Johnson's lips.The negro kidded and
Jeff landed again.

This was the one round that could be called even ,or a round that might be given to the white champion."

In fact Jeffries had done no more than re-open an old training injury to Johnson's lip caused by Kid Cutler.

To refute the first hand ringside reports I've provided , you must obviously provide ones ,showing the opposite.

I am sure we all look forward to seeing them,along with the primary sourced reports of Tommy Burns contacting jaundice and, asking for a postponement of the the Johnson fight, reports that I have asked for about TWENTY TIMES NOW.
N.B. The next time you rush onto here to defend the honour of your racist GOD, you might like to spell his name correctly,it is JEFFRIES, not Jeffires,
******!

 

HeGrant,

What heavyweights in the world other than Jack Johnson could have beaten the 6'2 227lb James Jeffries in 1910? Please don't say any 165lb men, I will laugh

 

It's called excuses, he was in shape, he trained to be in shape

Did Jeffries have Parkinsons? No, so stopping talking BS

 

Again, the people that were privy to his camp said his reflexes and fighting ability were gone. He was sparring primarily with his crappy brother, and deliberately hid those activities from the press. The fact he did not take a public tune-up speaks volumes of his commitment to this fight, and his own estimations of his abilities to beat Johnson in a fair match. According to Gunboat Smith, the fix was in for the San Fran fight. After it was moved to Reno, Jeff assumed the arrangement stood. Upon learning it did not, he was mortified.

I love this quote from the University of Nevada Reno Johnson-Jeffries exhibit regarding Jim's camp...

"Every day hordes of visitors swept out to Moana Springs (location of Jeffries' camp), where Jeffries frequently disappointed them by failing to appear. Jeffries occasionally took on his sparring partners or worked out before the crowds, but more often he trained in private or simply went fishing."

Ray Leonard was in shape versus Camacho, just not in fighting shape.

I don't understand how this not so subtle differentiation is lost on you.

 

Not having public workouts proves nothing, if he lost 100lbs and was that muscular he trained his ass off, pretending otherwise is intellectual dishonesty. His closeness to his prime is uncertain but his physical conditioning was impressive. Anyone saying he didn't take training seriously is obviously making excuses for his loss, it's pretty obvious

Not having a tune up proves nothing, Leonard had no tune up for Hagler, after 6years without championship boxing, did he not think he'd win either?

All in all Jeffries wouldn't have comeback if he didn't think he could win.